Photo: Plan of work of the corporation "Immortality"
Is it possible to revive a person after decades? What will the body be like for a cryonics patient? Is humanity ready to use an artificial body? And will it be better than natural? One of the founders of the Russian transhumanist movement, biophysicist Igor Artyukhov, talks about this and many other things
"Human immortal" … In the minds of most people - this is something from the field of science fiction. How close are we humans to this?
"The project does not develop technologies for defrosting and restoring, but the development of an artificial body."
- Most likely, we will not achieve this in the next 20 years. And already in the middle of the century - I would not rule out. Much depends on what efforts will be made to achieve the goal. Therefore, I do not presume to name the exact date, but I do not see any fundamental prohibitions or laws of nature that exclude this.
Nowadays biology is developing very rapidly, which is still giving a small but rapidly growing contribution to medicine. Artificial organs are being grown, and there are already successful experiments on humans. Single experiments, but on humans. With the use of stem cells, perhaps by the end of this decade it will be possible to replace almost any organ with artificially grown. The human genome has given a huge boost to medicine. Gradually, we begin to come to individual medicine, when they treat not just cancer, but cancer associated with a mutation that caused a particular cancer in a particular patient. The pace of development in a number of areas of science is very high. And around us there are a lot of examples of how quickly the landscape outside the window changes. And if it continues to change at the same rate, dramatic changes await us in the coming decades.
You are a person directly related to cryonics. How do you assess the intention to create an artificial human body by 2045?
- I would not speak with such high precision - it could be 2040 or 2060. We do not yet know what difficulties we will encounter along the way. At the beginning of the path it always seems that the path is smooth. It is possible that the road to the goal will take longer than we expect. But, again, science today does not know any laws of nature that would forbid a person to become immortal.
The road of a thousand li begins with the first step, as the Chinese say. Therefore, you just need to go in the right direction. And then if not in 2045, then in 2060 the goal will be achieved.
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Therefore, I do cryonics in order to give myself and other people the opportunity to wait for the time when science will allow a person to live forever. Wait at least frozen.
Is it possible to bring cryonics patients back to life using technologies that are planned to be implemented within the framework of the Russia2045 project?
- The project does not develop technologies for the actual defrosting and recovery. But the development of an artificial body … Of course, the KrioRus company is interested in the development of artificial bodies as carriers for individuals, which will be preserved using cryonics. It is quite possible that it is in the artificial body that cryopatients will be revived.
- What is the state of cryonics patients today?
- Each case is individual. Sometimes it is possible to quickly gain access to the body, sometimes after a considerable time. It depends on the cooperation of the medical staff with the cryonics firm, the presence or absence of conflicts between relatives. Therefore, all cryopatients are in a different state. Now they are in cryo-storage at liquid nitrogen temperature, nothing happens to their bodies. Some damage, of course, occurred during the dying process, some as a result of perfusion. The freezing technology is constantly being improved: now new cryoprotectants are used, fast freezing occurs without the formation of ice crystals, the tissues are almost not damaged. After that, a significant part of the cells in experiments can be revived.
However, if cryopatients are thawed today, it will cause additional damage. But in the future, appropriate technologies will appear, it will be possible not only to unfreeze patients, but also to correct those injuries that have resulted from aging, diseases, perfusion with a cryoprotectant and freezing itself. All of these changes are potentially reversible.
How do you assess the possibilities for bringing cryopatients back to life in the next 10–20–30 years?
- 10 years - excluded. 20 years is extremely unlikely. 30 years - hardly. But further - it is already real. It all depends on whether enough efforts are made and research is conducted. If the society takes on this "Manhattan project", which Russia2045 wants to become, then the necessary technologies will be obtained rather quickly. For this you need to work.
And what are the prospects for those cryopatients who are partially preserved, for example, the brain is frozen or only the head?
“ Their chances are about the same compared to those completely frozen. Because it will be possible to build up more or less all organs in 20 years. It is also feasible in 20 years to create an artificial body that will support the functioning of the head or brain. In principle, most of the artificial organs are already there. They have different degrees of perfection, a different amount of time with their help a person can live. But it is also obvious that they will develop and improve. In the final degree, they can be compared with natural organs, and then they will become better than them.
The task of restoring the brain of cryopatients is much more difficult than creating a completely artificial human body. Therefore, it will be solved last, when all other components of the revitalization of cryopatients have already been developed and improved.
Thus, by restoring the brain and giving it artificial organs, you can bring a person back to life?
- Yes, that's right. Another thing is that a person may not want to live with artificial organs or in a mechanical body, he wants to have a "meat" body. For such people it will be necessary to grow a "meat" body.
But it is clear that at some point the technical means will be more effective. Just as an airplane turned out to be more effective than a bird, as a submarine swims faster than a whale, so an artificial body will at some point catch up and overtake a natural body.
Everything is developing rapidly, and the prospects are quite close here.
Where do you see the main difficulties in the Russia2045 project on the way to the goal?
“The task of restoring the brain of cryopatients is much more difficult than creating a completely artificial human body. Therefore, it will be solved last"
- In my opinion, such a project should be international. If Russia digs its own separate small tunnel in parallel with the large tunnel that global science is digging, then most likely it will remain in the margins. Therefore, the project in Russia should be part of the global movement.
Of course, now much more is being done in this direction in America, Japan and even China. But Russia should, or rather, would very much like Russia to take its rightful place in this global movement. She deserves it. And the state has funds for this. This decade, 30 trillion are allocated to the Armed Forces, of which more than 20 trillion are allocated for the purchase of weapons. These are monstrous sums. If at least one thousandth is allocated to our direction, the result can be obtained much faster.
But instead of saving lives, the state is investing in taking lives. This is not only in Russia. In America, more money is being spent on weapons development. However, America can afford it, it also has a lot of money for science. In Russia ridiculous sums are allocated for science. And naturally, Russia will be comparable to the United States in terms of the number of missiles. But at the same time, it will hopelessly lag behind in science.
That is, the problem of this area of science - in the absence of state support and funding?
- Let's just say, rather in a misunderstanding of this direction. When you start talking to people, most people dismiss it as if they propose to create a perpetual motion machine or dig a tunnel through the center of the Earth with their hands. Few people understand that we are, in general, quite close to the goal. After all millennia of progress, we have come to a nuclear reactor, a computer, and modern achievements in medicine. And compared to the distance that has already been covered, there is not much left.
Today, educational activities are simply necessary, it is necessary to explain to people that immortality is possible. As once it was necessary to explain that vehicles heavier than air can fly, that you can fly into space.
It is also very important to explain among schoolchildren and students that this is possible. And since this is possible, it is difficult to imagine a more worthy task in order to apply your strength and talents. And the problem with personnel in science will be solved.
In your opinion, is humanity ready to accept and start using an artificial body?
- People are all different. Some are ready, some are not. Someone will flatly refuse, say: "This is not me." A person cannot be forced to be happy. No one should be forced here. It is necessary to give information that such an option is possible. And then - choose yourself. "To the free - will, and to the saved - paradise." Accordingly, the free will remain in his body, and the saved - in the paradise of the artificial body.