Karl Wieland talks with archaeologist Dr. Clifford Wilson.
Dr. Clifford Wilson has extensive experience in archeology. He earned his BA and MA from the University of Sydney, a BA in Theology (during graduate studies, including Hebrew and Greek) from Melbourne Theological College, and an MA in Religious Education from Luther Rice Seminary. He received his Ph. D. from the University of South Carolina, including several excellent marks in his fieldwork in archeology with the Jewish Union College of Jerusalem.
Q: Dr. Wilson, what is your experience in archeology?
A: I started lecturing at the Australian Institute of Archeology over 35 years ago - I worked there for a while. Later, when I had a certain qualification, I returned to the institute as a director. I am known not only as an archeologist, but also as a certified psychologist. I am also a member of the Australian Business Education Society - in general, I have several titles!
I directed the excavations in the city of Gezer, Israel, which were carried out by the American School of Oriental Studies. Then I was the assistant leader of the first excavations in Tel Nuseh, which is possibly the biblical city of Gai. I visited nine countries mentioned in the Bible, and everywhere I was perceived as a serious scientist. I was even fortunate enough to participate in excavations in Nineveh (Kuyundzhik) - just opposite the city of Mosul, where I personally discovered a small path between the palace of the Assyrian king Sennacherib in Iraq and the temple, along with an inscription that this road is dedicated to the goddess Esagila.
Q: Tell us about your most interesting practical experience?
A: It was in Gezer, where the work was carried out for several days. We examined a lot of black ash in one place and found nothing. Professor Nelson Gleck, a very serious archaeologist who opened the Solomon Mines to the world, said that the ash should continue to be sifted. We continued to sift and found signs of civilization with Egyptian and Canaanite artifacts, as well as the nearby Solomon Wall. A group of researchers discovered small figurines of deities and the like. I was the leader of the excavation. All participants in the excavation were happy because they knew that the ashes date back to the time when the Egyptians burned the city of Gezer and gave it to Solomon as a wedding gift when he married the Pharaoh's daughter.
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Q: Surely this was biblical?
A: Even very much - this fact is described in the book of 1 Kings 9:16. It was interesting that at that time several famous archaeologists in the world gathered here, for example, Harvard archaeologist G. Ernst Wright. Scientists liked not that they were proving the Bible to be true, but that they had discovered something important in history that they could lean on. I was struck by the fact that they considered the Bible to be an accepted book that reliably records historical facts. They were happy to find something that would fit into the accepted story.
Q: Have you ever found anything in your archaeological research that in a way contradicts the biblical description?
I have heard many statements that facts contradict the biblical history, but, as practice shows, over time it turns out that the Bible is right.
A: I have heard many statements that the facts contradict the biblical history, but, as practice shows, over time it turns out that the Bible is right. I well remember how a well-known archaeologist in Gezer made a remark to a young colleague who condemned the Bible. He simply said quietly, "If I were you, I would not criticize the Bible." When the young archaeologist asked "Why?" He replied, "Well, just because over time it always turns out that she is right." I agree with that!
Professor Nelson Gleck, whom I consider to be one of the foremost scholars of Biblical archeology, once lectured 120 American students who interacted with Arabs. He said, "I have been digging for 30 years with the Bible in one hand and the spatula in the other, and as far as the historical aspect, I have never seen the Scripture go wrong."
On one occasion, H. Ernst Wright, professor of Old Testament and Semitic Studies at Harvard University, also lectured on these excavations. He drew particular attention to the audience's research on the Hittites and the data obtained by Professor Georg Mendelhall regarding suzerain agreements between Hittite kings and their vassals. Wright concluded that Moses' records of agreements date from the middle of the second millennium, i.e. about 1500 BC … He also noted that these scriptures should be considered as one whole. In other words, one person wrote them. That one person could only be Moses.
Later I went to Professor Wright and said, "Sir, this is very different from what you yourself wrote." He looked at me and said, “Clifford, for 30 years I have been teaching Harvard students to prepare for the Christian ministry. I told them that they can forget about Moses in the Pentateuch, but as far as these agreements in the Pentateuch are concerned, I must admit I was wrong."
These were two giants of scientific thought. One said, "I have been digging for 30 years and have never seen the Bible go wrong." Another said, "I was wrong for 30 years." It is sad that a good man like Professor Wright was so carried away by a ridiculous documentary hypothesis * that he was wrong for so long. Let me remind you that Professor Wright was a man of the highest reputation.
Q: Can you think of any other facts that prove the authenticity of Genesis?
A: Yes. In the late 1970s. shortly after the excavation of the city of Ebla in northern Syria (between Damascus and Aleppo), the Italian archaeologist Paulo Mattea and the epigraph (translator) Professor Pettinato announced their discoveries in Elba to English-speaking scientists. Their lecture tour was hosted by Professor David Noel Friedman, the man who brought fantastic new tablets to the world. His photograph was featured on the front page of TIME magazine.
One day David Noel Friedman invited me to dinner with several famous archaeologists.
After lunch, the scientists began to discuss various technical issues. I must admit that some of them were of little interest to me, since I do not understand cuneiform. But then I heard a conversation among scientists and asked Professor Friedman: “Sir, I heard that a new tablet has been discovered describing the creation. It's true?" He shrugged his shoulders and, pointing to Pettinato, replied, "Ask him." I turned the same question to Pettinato, and after some hesitation he said that this information was closed. I thought, "If a new tablet describing Creation is found, you can't hide it, people should know about it." Pettinato thought for a moment and then said that the new tablet had indeed been found.
Dr. Wilson discovered this stone in Kuyundzhik (Nineveh). This is a piece of pavement with an inscription that nearby is a temple dedicated to the goddess Esagila.
I found it interesting that famous scientists are discussing the impact of the find on the 'documentary hypothesis'. According to this hypothesis, the Old Testament is nothing more than oral tradition, and only after the time of King Solomon, several parts of the story were brought together. Presumably, this happened periodically every hundred years: from Solomon to Ezra, who, in the end, together with his chroniclers, wrote it down in the Scriptures.
As a result of the discovery of a new tablet dating back to the time before Moses, one of the scholars declared: "It looks like we should forget about the P document." Document P is believed to date from the time of Ezra. The argument of the documentary hypothesis was that the history of Creation was not included in the Pentateuch (records of Moses) until the time of Ezra, i.e. Moses did not know her. But in fact, we have established: not only did Moses know this story, but it was known even before him.
Q: Doesn't this pose a problem, since the first time we learn about it in the Bible is from Moses?
We can safely consider Being what it is - the records of real witnesses.
ABOUT:The answer is 'Yes'. But there is strong evidence to suggest that the writings of Moses were composed by Moses himself from the writing on clay tablets. Donald Weissman, once professor of archaeological and Semitic studies at the University of London, recently released a revised book written in 1948 by his father, P. D. Wiseman, "New Discoveries in Babylonia about Genesis". It is now called “Clues to Creation in Genesis”. In this book, Donald acknowledges that his father's approach was essentially correct, that is, throughout Genesis, a literary form known as the colophon is constantly used. the place where one plate ends and the next begins. In the writings of Genesis, the colophon is centered around the expression "This is the genealogy" … The first records of Genesis were supposedly carried across the fertile crescent by Abraham and, ultimately, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, were used by Moses (centuries after Abraham) to compile the book of Genesis.
In history, of course, there has never been any document drawn up by the Holy Writers. We can safely consider Being what it is - the records of real witnesses. Although there are some permissible changes that help future generations to better understand history (for example, Genesis 14: 3 speaks of the Siddim Valley, “where is the Salt Sea now”), the main text of the scriptures refers to the time of Genesis itself.
Q: Dr. Wilson, we often hear statements that religion has evolved, i.e. first, people worshiped spirits, then many gods, then several gods, and, in the end, they came to the idea of one true God. Tell me, is this confirmed by archaeological data about civilizations with which you are familiar?
A: We found records that immediately after the Flood, people worshiped three gods - the god of the earth, the god of the sky, and the god of water. Soon after, we find evidence that humans believed in many ancient gods. It all starts with the concept of monotheism (one God), and ends with polytheism (many gods). Those. in the beginning we don't see many gods. Despite the fact that people in Ebla believed in 500 gods, in ancient Canaan there was a concept of a 'great' Lugal, who was associated with creation. Later the word Lugal came to mean "king".
Q: This is all consistent with what Paul says in Romans: did people stop worshiping the true God and turned to things?
A: Absolutely. The mention of only three gods after the Flood, albeit in a vague way, may be related to the Trinity, because the devilish forces seem to be ready to offer a parody of something spiritual. The Canaanites worshiped three main gods: El - the father, Baal - the son, and Asirat - the mother, wife of El (and also, according to some scholars, the mother of Baal). Although it was not completely clear who is who in this triad, the essence remained the same - there were three gods. So when the Israelites turned their backs on Yahweh, tired of all the rules of the "holy life", they faced an alternative to worship the three gods of the Canaanites. It was a parody of the Trinity, which, of course, was not fully revealed until the time of the New Testament, but demonic forces were always aware of the Trinity.
Q: People brought up on evolutionary thinking cannot understand how an archaeologist digging in the earth can believe in the truth of Genesis, in particular in the young age of the Earth. Have you ever taken part in any research and seen other evidence casting doubt on the evolutionary geological dating system?
A:Many years ago I had a chance to give a lecture in one of the colleges in the United States, at which I stated that the age of the Earth can be anything: millions or billions of years. After the lecture, a student came up to me and offered to read the work of Professor Thomas Barnes. I began researching this work and even met with a scientist who was studying Barnes's arguments about the decrease in the earth's magnetic field. This man collaborated with one of the largest institutions in America. I asked him to share his findings. He said: "It is not at all about my conclusions, but about the institute that I represent." This scientist made it very clear to me that he personally considered Barnes's arguments serious (and, incidentally, he could not refute them). However, the institute was not ready to accept these arguments because it meant recognizing the young age of the earth, i.e. several thousand instead of millions of years. Scientists at the institute said, "We know Professor Barnes is wrong." “We know” - simply because this is the evolutionary religion of the institution!
The Canaanite altar at Megiddo is a place where animals and people were sacrificed.
Q: Do you meet with this attitude in archeology?
A: Sometimes yes. During excavations at Gezer, we discovered a repository of Philistine pots that were out of use for about 150 years, based on the argument that the Exodus took place around 1290–1270. BC. It is this date that many modern scientists adhere to, but they are clearly mistaken. Dr. Bryant Wood has done a lot of research showing that the Wall of Jericho fell around 1400 BC, which puts the Exodus date back to around 1440 BC … According to this theory, the pots simply shouldn't be there … Scientists didn't know what to do with the find, so they just fell silent.
It happens from time to time. My personal experience shows: if the Bible says something, do not rush to object, because over time, as practice shows, it turns out to be right.
Q: Have you ever had to hold or see fossil finds that contradict the geologic column?
A: Yes. I have taken part in the excavations in the Pelexy River, Texas several times, and I must say, we found a lot of interesting things there. I spoke to a woman, Jenny Mac, who discovered the famous trilobite with her mother. Jenny is the curator of the Somerwell County Museum in Glen Rose. She found the trilobite in the same limestone fossil beds that had revealed many of the undeniable dinosaur footprints. I asked her if she was sure of her find, because dinosaur footprints and trilobites had never been found in the same place before. She was upset, thinking that I called her a liar. She knew about limestone strata and about footprints, but insisted that trilobites had been found along with dinosaur footprints right in front of her house in the Pelexy River.
Q: Have you seen the fossil yourself?
A: Yes, I held it in my hands. This is a piece of limestone about 10.5 cm long. Without a doubt, it was a trilobite, no one argued with that. It was found in the same stratum where dinosaur footprints were previously found. But if you follow evolutionary theory, this is impossible, because they are separated by tens of millions of years.
Q: You have to understand that you know something about some of the dinosaur tracks in the Pelexi River, found in the wrong place
A: Yes, and it's very interesting. In 1982, at the end of the excavation, the head of the field research came up to me and said: "I think I have found something on the topmost layer that might be a dinosaur footprint." The excavation leader and I (his assistant) replied: “Forget it. This is the top layer of the earth and there can be no dinosaur footprints here. " Then he said: “Look, the equipment is already installed, we paid a lot of money for it and we are almost finished. Let me just peel off the covering layer and see what's in there. " We agreed and it started working.
An ancient artifact of the Canaanite god Baal.
After a while, he came up and said, "I think there is something there." We all went to the place where he removed the overburden (an average of 2 to 3.5 m - debris accumulated over the centuries). It was a 9x9 m area. I went down to the bottom and personally dug six dinosaur tracks. I measured the distance between the tracks. They were about 106 cm apart. There were a lot of people, cameras were working, so it was impossible to fake something. As a result, we found six footprints in the Pelexi River.
After about a couple of years, I ended up in this field again. The renowned scientist Dr. Charles Tucson approached me and we had a pleasant talk with him. He said, "By the way, remember the footprints that you found in the upper layer here?" “Yes,” I replied. "Do you know how your find was reported in the press?" "Not". “It was written that traces could not be found here, that they could not be real, because this limestone does not belong to the Cretaceous period. The authors stated that these tracks were carved by the Indians or simply forged."
We met with a specialist in Indian art history at a nearby university and asked him a few questions about how the Indians carved and whether they carved in stone. He replied, "No." They painted on the walls of the caves, inside and outside, but they definitely never carved in stone. Plus, how could they do it under the deep overburden? Not known. I am glad that I was there and participated in the excavation. I can safely declare before God that the footprints are real. I personally went down to the bottom of the pit, where I saw the beginning of the dinosaur tracks. I knew that if we continued to dig in the direction that the trail showed, we would find other traces. So we found six prints.
These were dinosaur footprints - the same footprints that were found elsewhere in the area. However, these tracks were supposedly in the 'wrong' location. Biased scientists reject this simple and straightforward evidence simply because the facts don't fit into evolutionary timelines.
Thank you very much, Dr. Wilson
Note
* The documentary hypothesis (J, E, D, P, H hypotheses) is unfortunately still taught in many Christian institutions. According to this hypothesis, the five books of Moses were not written by him, but refer to at least five other sources (codenamed J, E, D, P, H), which gradually merged over the centuries. The hypothesis has changed from time to time, but it is still preached in many institutions, despite the clear, refuting evidence. The main documents of the Bible are descriptions of witnesses with the minimum permissible amendments necessary for understanding by future generations, such as Genesis 14: 3, where the Siddim Valley became part of the Salt (Dead) Sea.
