At the end of January, an unusual disk was found in Kuzbass at the Mokhovsky coal mine, which interested researchers. Opinions about its origin were divided into diametrically opposite ones. Serious disputes have flared up between scientists: some believe that the disk is a natural phenomenon, while others are inclined to the most fantastic versions of its origin.
The famous ufologist Vadim Chernobrov came to Kemerovo to study the “stone disc of ancestors”. In an exclusive interview with the Sibdepo website, Vadim talked about why the disc may belong to alien beings, who controls the earthlings and how to prevent a universal war.
Vadim, tell me why you, unlike your colleagues, do not draw specific conclusions about the origin of the stone disc?
- I 99% agree with your fellow countryman, a geologist, who categorically stated that the disk is a stone nodule. But, from a general scientific point of view, I am against it, because the loss of interest leads to the termination of the study. Why study what everyone knows? Different generations of scientists constantly say that they know everything. It's impossible. Our knowledge is limited to hundreds of years, but by no means millions.
I do not adhere to extreme points of view, I have no burning desire to necessarily confirm or deny something. Although those who follow the activities of "Kosmopoisk" know that in most cases I spend time refuting the rumors that are circulating in our information space. I assume that extreme points of view will turn out to be wrong in the end.
By them I mean that the disc is an exclusively natural or exclusively artificial formation. You will not argue that the find resembles a flying saucer by associations? But I'm not convinced that this is really what fantasy fans would like to see.
So, it is possible that the disc is of extraterrestrial origin?
- As a specialist in aerospace aircraft, I am convinced that such a ship shape is convenient from the point of view of aerodynamics and the use of promising propellers. If some kind of artificial formation fell into the rock 200 million years ago, then it would not have come down to us in its original form. The atoms of iron, glass or other material have been replaced by atoms of the surrounding substance. Our gaze appeared approximately what we see now. Alas, we only have to speculate about the initial content of the object.
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We can also say that the stone disk refers to the existence of ancient civilizations - extraterrestrial, ancient, or any other. There are a lot of versions, but the main thing is to pay attention to the facts. The available data are insufficient to draw unambiguous conclusions. I am now acting as a science advocate trying to resolve a scientific dispute.
What do you need to know and what is known about the disc at the moment?
- The position of the disc during detection is very important. If it was found in a horizontal position, then this speaks of a geological version, if it is tilted, this point of view instantly disappears. Now we only have rumors: the disc was not the only one, about four or five of them were found in Kuzbass. Most of them are in the Mokhovskoye section. They only talk to us about them, but they cannot show them, because people did not attach importance to this fact and threw out the discs.
I see this not as a fact, but rather as a hope. If others start looking more often at their feet, the likelihood of a new find is very high. How quickly a new disk will be discovered, I cannot say, but sooner or later it will happen. If other similar finds appear, we will be able to observe certain patterns.
But such discs have already been found in other regions of the country. Isn't it possible to correlate the data and draw a conclusion about the origin of the fossil?
- Finds of about the same age were made in the Tyumen region. These are artifacts in the form of tungsten filaments. Tungsten is one of the few materials that can survive tens and hundreds of millions of years. But we did not find it in this disk, at least not in large quantities. In addition, similar discs were found in China, Kabardino-Balkaria, where underground cities are found next to the finds. It is not worth transferring the properties of these finds to a disk discovered in the Kemerovo Region, so as not to make hasty conclusions.
How will the study of the “stone disc of ancestors” proceed?
- We have already measured alpha, beta and gamma radiation. The radiation background of the disk is normal. The artifact was checked for the presence of metallic inclusions, although it was assumed that in millions of years the iron atoms would disappear. In particular, I hoped that there were traces of tungsten, but there were none.
To study a stone formation, you need to involve a variety of methods, with the exception of those that lead to the destruction of the artifact. For example, scanning, the use of non-hazardous radiation, including sound radiation, and the use of ultrasound-type installations. This is necessary in order to understand what the disk consists of. Now we need to decide how to scan it. I am opposed to taking the artifact out of the museum.
Therefore, with the permission of the museum, an X-ray machine could be brought. The main thing is to carry out studies without destruction and transportation. Such methods exist, however, they are very expensive. We will cool and heat the disc to illuminate it with a thermoscan and a thermal imager. This will allow you to find out if there are cavities or foreign inclusions inside the fossil. Thermoscan research is a rather gentle and informative method that does not carry any loads, including thermal ones.
If more samples appear, then the question will arise about cutting the disc. In the meantime, technology allows you to study an object without destroying it.
You are an engineer of aerospace ships by education, and you are also engaged in the study of various anomalies. I think there is a slight contradiction between these two areas of activity …
- The romance of the sky has always attracted me, because since childhood I lived among pilots and planes. I am engaged in the study of everything unidentified, and there is no contradiction in this. Many of the observed effects (poltergeists, ghosts) painfully resemble the phenomena of landing and appearance of UFOs. In other words, I am not claiming that one is an extension of the other. After all, it would be foolish to assume that the ghost arrives on a flying saucer.
The design and study of aircraft is in your blood, one might say. How did you realize you wanted to study anomalies?
- Of course, there were significant moments in my life that influenced my life. I made my childhood dream come true - I became an aerospace engineer. I want to surf the vastness of the universe. Sometimes I have achieved not enough. I would be happy to be engaged in direct engineering, that is, the production of star aircraft. It's a challenge worth living for. And I'm ready to fly one way to Mars, just tell me, I'll get ready in five minutes! But while this is not, I am just approaching the long-awaited moment.
From time to time I ask myself the question: why am I doing this, what do I have from this? Glory? Money? I'm not a pop star to please everyone, and my fame is questionable. First of all, of course, I do it for myself. I even write books that would be interesting for me to read. I perfectly understand that the circle of my readers is limited, not everyone shares my point of view.
I'm not proud or worried about this. Just working for posterity who will appreciate it. Will they be critical of this or will they laugh at me, as we do in relation to the previous generation from the height of our knowledge? Our experience is based on their mistakes, so it is important for me what they say about me in many years.
You are about to send a time capsule with a message to the future, which will reach our descendants in about 200 years. Is it she who will help form the right opinion about you and your activities?
- If you send a lot of different opinions to the future, some will be interesting to humanity. It will then decide what to publish and what to discard. This is a kind of experiment: we think what it is to send, we look at ourselves from the outside in order to form an opinion about ourselves. You can call it a temporary mirror that allows you to improve yourself a little.
We put a huge amount of information on electronic media in a small capsule. I put my books in it. Perhaps in 200 years they will be readable from a flash drive. As long as knowledge exists, you can recreate the technique of the past. If, of course, we are talking about objects that are millions of years away from us, like the same stone disc, difficulties arise.
Let's go back to extraterrestrial civilizations. Is it worth a person, in principle, to explore space and get to know aliens if we cannot figure out our planet?
- We are not worthy of space travel. If there is life on other planets, then I, as a responsible person, must prevent terrible mistakes: interplanetary wars. Our aggression cannot be transferred to others, including to other planets. We don’t want to be bullied by alien aggressors who, with success, grind us into powder in Hollywood films.
So you say that with the development of other planets, a universal war awaits us?
- There is a possibility of this. There is no defense against what we might throw out on others. For example, agreements have been drawn up on the non-use of nuclear weapons in outer space. But where is the guarantee of their observance?
It turns out that the inhabitants of the Earth are not as intelligent as the aliens?
- There is a paradox that I often hear: if you think that extraterrestrial civilizations exist, why do not they contact us. The answer is that they are intelligent. For it is categorically impossible to contact with us today. At least out of respect for each other. After all, contact is an exchange of knowledge and technology. It can be fatal to earthlings.
Because the use of different technologies has never stopped us from destroying our own kind. Of course, you cannot contact us, but you can spy on, observe, draw conclusions. But one day we will be ready to communicate with aliens morally, technically and humanistically.
And what would you do if you were an alien being? Wouldn't you be allowed on your planet?
- I would do everything to keep earthlings from their planet. Believe me, there are thousands of ways to prevent some wild civilization from starting its stellar expansion. Aliens are more powerful creatures. Moreover, you will not even understand that some sanctions and military actions were applied to you. It will definitely not be as beautifully filmed in Hollywood films. Earthlings won't even understand what really happened.
And if we talk about ghosts: is it possible to find out that such a creature lives at home?
- They write books, instructions, including me, how not to be mistaken in this case. Nobody bothers you to be a deep skeptic, but, believe me, when a poltergeist appears in the house, he will sneeze on your faith. You will immediately understand this, contact the police, the priests, and then start looking for "ghostbusters" to help get rid of the creature. You just don't need to wind yourself up. As is known from psychology: there will always be people who will find something in the described symptoms.
Many people believe in the existence of ghosts, poltergeists and UFOs, mistaking any unusual effect for an anomaly. How often are you approached and asked to come and do research?
“I’m not a ghost hunter like in the movie, where experts are running around with instruments behind their backs. Let me tell you a terrible secret, there are no such devices in the world at all. Although many believe it. I receive about 200 letters every day. A variety of people are converted - believers, disbelievers, even schizophrenics. For the most part, people describe completely normal phenomena.
I don't answer everyone, I go to the place even less often. I only talk to people on interesting occasions. Those who did not answer, of course, are offended, but what are the offenses? - after all, they don't pay so that I drop everything and rush to them. All trips and research I do at my own expense. This is a principled position so that no one would suspect that I am doing science for the sake of money. Because there are a lot of cases of charlatanism.
I keep a list of expeditions. In total, there were about 700 of them - he supervised or went personally. By the way, much more often than the average person, I visit places where an anomaly can occur. We are looking for patterns based on past trends, statistics, dry mathematical calculations. Not all predictions come true, but there were cases when we "planned" to encounter UFOs.
Have you seen the aliens?
- I saw how close a UFO was landing. It was several years ago on the Medveditskaya ridge. Moreover, everyone has a chance to get on the Cosmopoisk expedition. People often come to us to participate in research, knowing about the elements of luck and chance. It is not always possible to see something abnormal, but we try to increase the percentage of the guarantee. This is science.
Will there be any expedition in the near future?
- Our organization is researching the appearance of Crop Circles. Already in June of this year we will hunt for them in the Krasnodar Territory. I cannot give the exact date yet, but you can follow the activities of "Cosmopoisk". You just need to understand that you are not going on a trip, and we are not a travel agency that takes you on vacation with us. Perhaps, like last year, we will be disappointed. But each time our calculations are more accurate.
