As it was found out with the help of genetic tests, geneticist Valery Ilyinsky tells on the air of Radio Komsomolskaya Pravda.
Bachenin:
- Hello, friends. This is "Data Transfer". Maria Bachenina is at the microphone. People have always been interested in their roots, their ancestors, although few people know their own pedigree, for example, deeper than great-grandmothers, great-grandfathers, and many would like to know more. Let's talk about scientific ways to learn more. Today in the "Data transmission" geneticist, general director of the company "Genotech" Valery Ilyinsky.
Let's go from general to specific. What technologies of genetic analysis now exist that can tell about the origin of humans in principle?
Ilyinsky:
- In general, genetics now agree that all people came from Africa. All modern genetic technologies allow this process of leaving Africa and the further resettlement of people across the Earth to be divided into certain stages, and, depending on the stage, use different approaches. Well, for example, if we want to investigate the distant origin of a person, how he literally left Africa, then one method of analysis is used. If we want to see the relationship at the level of 1-2-3-4 generations, other technologies are used. If we want to know the ethnic composition, that is, who by origin, from which populations came …
Bachenin:
- For example, the Russian ethnos. Or is it more correct to say Russian ethnos?
Promotional video:
Ilyinsky:
- Unfortunately, there is no definite term here.
Bachenin:
- Say "Russian", and there are still many other nationalities. You say "Russian", they will say: what does the ethnos have to do with it?
Ilyinsky:
- Moreover, nationality is self-determination. And from the point of view of DNA, we are talking about populations. At the same time, populations are often associated with nationality. The populations of people who live in the North Caucasus, they consider themselves to be of certain nationalities, but this does not mean that there are no people there who live in the same population, are genetically similar to their neighbors, but consider themselves to be of a different nationality.
Bachenin:
- There was a case about research, what kind of incest was in this ethnos, who is more, who is less, of whom we are made. So, there was a dispute about who Copernicus is by nationality. It was a silly argument, but that's not the point. The point is that in those days there was no clear concept of nationality. How do you at the moment classify this or that blood group … In terms of not a blood group, but in terms of belonging to the land where these people lived, how do you define their nationality, if they themselves did not determine it?
Ilyinsky:
- Nationality is still a question of self-determination. How to determine nationality? Just ask.
Bachenin:
- And what word is more correct to use then?
Ilyinsky:
- There is no such term. Unfortunately, there is still no unambiguous term that would not raise any questions from anyone. We use a term such as ethnic composition.
Bachenin:
- Do you mean the composition of the blood?
Ilyinsky:
- The composition of our genome. Different regions of DNA have different markers that are characteristic of certain populations. And if we take and decode the genome of some person, then we can say that this chromosome came from this population, and this chromosome came from this population.
Bachenin:
- Do you think continents or countries: is it from Africa, is it from Australia or is it from Germany, is it from Italy?
Ilyinsky:
- We're talking about populations. Continents are, of course, convenient, but few people are interested. To say that you are generally from Eurasia is not so-so information. At the same time, countries are often similar to each other. It is almost impossible to distinguish between Belarusians and Russians, one might say that this is one population. Here we are talking more about populations, that is, about people who, as a rule, form marriages within their own population and mix less with others. From this point of view, groups such as Ashkenazi Jews, for example, or residents of the Russian Far North, they are such very bright populations, because they are very strongly isolated from the outside world, and their marriages, as a rule, are formed within themselves, and this they are genetically very strongly separated from others.
Bachenin:
- What technology do you consider the most detailed, the most optimal?
Ilyinsky:
- How does the definition of ethnic composition work now? We take human DNA, decipher it, and then, for each marker, for each polymorphism, we try to attribute this or that fragment of the genome to a certain population. We can say that this half of the chromosome has markers that are found only in Ashkenazi Jews and are not found in anyone else.
Bachenin:
- In order to determine belonging to some ethnic group, you have to take from more than one person …
Ilyinsky:
- We need some kind of standard.
Bachenin:
- And what is the standard?
Ilyinsky:
- These are people who claim that their ancestors, at least up to the level of grandparents, lived settled on a certain population and do not have any foreign impurities.
Bachenin:
- That is, you take native Muscovites, for example, and prove that they are really indigenous, or disappoint them?
Ilyinsky:
- It is not very interesting to take native Muscovites, because Muscovites are too big a mixture. It is much more interesting to take, for example, conditionally pure Jews or conditionally pure Russians, those who rather live in villages that live settled in the territory of, say, the modern central part of Russia.
Bachenin:
- And how many such people are needed?
Ilyinsky:
- As a rule, each population is fairly well characterized by several dozen people (30-40-50), conditionally pure representatives.
Bachenin:
- It seems to me that with the Jews it is easier than finding 30 sedentary Russians who live in the villages and claim that their great-great-great-grandpra lived here.
Ilyinsky:
- Don't tell. Because Jews are also different. Conventionally, Jews who live in the former USSR are very different from Jews who live in Europe or immigrated to Israel. On the territory of Israel, Jews are also different - Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, and they are all different from each other.
Bachenin:
- Your impressions, which nation values the purity of its blood above all else?
Ilyinsky:
- This is more a cultural moment than a genetic one.
Bachenin:
“I’m asking you for impressions, not scientific confirmation.
Ilyinsky:
- It seems to me that all nations now are huge mixtures. There are practically no people who would be very homogeneous.
Bachenin:
- Recently I saw a video on the Internet. There is a cut, and people are asked: Who do you think you are? - I am German. - Exactly? “I'm telling you exactly, German.
And so about each representative. There are not only European races, there are people of a different skin color, etc. They were so confident. Moreover, there was even a negative attitude towards others: no, I have no French for anything, what are you? They are shown, and they begin to cry simply. That's why I asked about the purity of blood.
Ilyinsky:
- A similar project is now being done in Russia. I think that after some time the same video can be filmed …
Bachenin:
- Only with Russian-speaking people.
Ilyinsky:
- In fact, we also have such situations when a person comes and says: I am an absolute, purest Azerbaijanian, there was no one in the family except Azerbaijanis. It turns out that, conventionally, Azerbaijani blood is far from 100% there.
Bachenin:
- Caucasians upset?
Ilyinsky:
- People react differently. Someone says that this is not my result at all, this cannot be, you have mixed everything up. Someone is very surprised. Someone is trying to start delving into their pedigree, to find out from their parents, grandmothers, grandfathers who they are, what they are.
Bachenin:
- Valera, you said that everyone came out of Africa. How do you track who went where? And I would also like to ask about such nationalities that seem to have originated on their continent … For example, Indians. How could they come from Africa? They have the same identity. And there are a lot of such examples. The same islanders who still don't know civilization. What is Africa? - any normal person will tell you.
Ilyinsky:
- In fact, all people came from Africa - both Indians and Papuans. There was a small group of people who founded the modern human race. It was almost 100 thousand years ago. And then genetics can trace the origin, the settlement of people across the territory of the earth along their paternal and maternal lines. That is, we can track the path through fathers and through mothers. Why only this way, why not somehow differently? There is a very convenient tool for geneticists, this is the Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA. What it is? The Y chromosome is, in fact, the chromosome that determines the male sex, it is only in men, it inherits from father to son, it is not transmitted through a woman. And it is inherited unchanged. If all other chromosomes somehow intermix with each other during transmission from generation to generation, then the Y chromosome, as it is,and it is transmitted. And exactly the same mitochondrial DNA, it is passed down the maternal line. Men also have it, but it is not inherited from men, but it is inherited through the female line. And it is also so monolithic, does not mix in any way, it is as it is and is transmitted. Since they are transmitted practically unchanged, any mutation that occurs in them is further passed on to all descendants. If a man at some point has a mutation in the Y chromosome, then all descendants of this man in the male line will have this mutation in the Y chromosome. Thus, we can say that if we find this mutation in the Y chromosome in a person, then he has all these relatives.but through the female line is inherited. And it is also so monolithic, it does not mix in any way, it is as it is and is transmitted. Since they are transmitted practically unchanged, any mutation that occurs in them is further passed on to all descendants. If a man at some point has a mutation in the Y chromosome, then all descendants of this man in the male line will have this mutation in the Y chromosome. Thus, we can say that if we find this mutation in the Y chromosome in a person, then he has all these relatives.but through the female line is inherited. And it is also so monolithic, it does not mix in any way, it is as it is and is transmitted. Since they are transmitted practically unchanged, any mutation that occurs in them is further transmitted to all descendants. If a man at some point has a mutation in the Y chromosome, then all descendants of this man in the male line will have this mutation in the Y chromosome. Thus, we can say that if we find this mutation in the Y chromosome in a person, then he has all these relatives. If a man at some point has a mutation in the Y chromosome, then all descendants of this man in the male line will have this mutation in the Y chromosome. Thus, we can say that if we find this mutation in the Y chromosome in a person, then he has all these relatives. If a man at some point has a mutation in the Y chromosome, then all descendants of this man in the male line will have this mutation in the Y chromosome. Thus, we can say that if we find this mutation in the Y chromosome in a person, then he has all these relatives.
And it works the same way when we need to trace the paths of human migration from Africa. Once upon a time, humans originated in Africa. Suppose a man had a mutation on the Y chromosome tens of thousands of years ago. All of his descendants have this mutation.
Bachenin:
- Here you can generally stumble upon the fact that all people on planet Earth are relatives.
Ilyinsky:
- Yes. And we can estimate the approximate age of each mutation by the number of people, according to archaeological finds and say approximately to what age of occurrence of this or that mutation this or that period of time belongs. Based on this, it is possible to compose a whole tree of mutations in fact, but these mutations are also tied to the chronology simply by year.
Bachenin:
- Mutations accumulate over time and …
Ilyinsky:
- And we, based on the large set of these mutations that have accumulated, can mark on the map with dots where the ancestors lived on the paternal and maternal lines, for each person.
Bachenin:
- I imagine this map and see that three arrows diverge from one person first, from three - 23, this is a geometric progression to some extent.
Ilyinsky:
- If we go on the contrary, if we take a person out of Africa in this way. But we are not interested in a person from Africa, but in the way back. The way back is quite straightforward. Because we take, conditionally, thousands of mutations that a particular person has, and then we begin to track when they appeared on this map.
Bachenin:
- What scientists like to use more - Y-chromosome or mitochondrial DNA?
Ilyinsky:
- And here it is interesting to use both. The Y chromosome or mitochondrial DNA does not give a complete picture of the origin, we will only trace one branch, one line. It is quite interesting to watch how they combine, or, conversely, do not combine with each other.
Bachenin:
- Where people met and got married.
Ilyinsky:
- Yes, where there was more influence of men, where there was, conditionally, the transmission of information through women.
Bachenin:
- It turns out, one way or another, we have come from the general to the particular - to individual genetic tests for nationality. The first question is why?
Ilyinsky:
- On the one hand, you will not be able to build a family tree with names, etc. This is more a matter of archives than genetics. But at the same time, if you have any misunderstandings, doubts, something unknown in the history of the family, then a DNA test often allows you to somehow resolve these issues. In general, you can find out, conditionally, where you came from approximately, where did your ancestors come from by your father and mother.
Bachenin:
- And whether my grandmother sinned with the diver, or all these are rumors, she was slandered.
Ilyinsky:
- Often, different family legends can be resolved with the help of a genetic test.
Bachenin:
- And more legends than truth?
Ilyinsky:
- Differently. Every family has some legends, at least beliefs that, conventionally, my great-great-grandfather had 12 children, he was a Finn. Whether it's true or not, a genetic test will answer this question.
Bachenin:
- If we return to general genetics, can I find out, thanks to a DNA test, how my closest relatives are scattered around the world? It is clear that the next ones are about 1.5 centuries, which left offspring with whom I can communicate. Let's say someone has suspicions that after the revolution or during its time, relatives, some part of the family, emigrated overseas. This is a legend or not a legend, no one just knows, but wants to find it. This can help?
Ilyinsky:
- Modern DNA tests allow you to search for relatives up to the 10th generation. The 10th generation is such a limit, beyond which the accuracy of the genetic test is quite low. But the 10th generation is 300 years at least, it's deep enough. And among those people who have passed the same DNA test, you can look for relatives.
Bachenin:
- Is there a common base? For example, I rent in Russia, my potential American relative is in the USA. And we will never meet.
Ilyinsky:
- Unfortunately, there are problems here. Because there is no single database, each company that makes genetic tests has its own database.
Bachenin:
- Is this a medical secret?
Ilyinsky:
- It's not that a medical secret, it's rather a commercial secret. This database is value. American companies have large databases on Americans, Russian companies - on Russians.
Bachenin:
- It may also be some kind of strategic data. Does it have any meaning for the military-industrial complex?
Ilyinsky:
- No, it's more like legends that someone is developing some kind of genetic weapon.
Bachenin:
- Can a DNA test show what percentage of me are Germans, British, Jews, Aztecs, etc.?
Ilyinsky:
- About the Aztecs - hardly.
Bachenin:
- Why can't we define the non-existing peoples?
Ilyinsky:
- You can, but not all. It is possible to identify only those peoples that are well enough genetically studied.
Bachenin:
- Are the Aztecs bad?
Ilyinsky:
- There is little information on them.
Bachenin:
- I will introduce you to the archaeologists who get there to bring you a bone.
Ilyinsky:
- We need a lot of bones.
Bachenin:
- How many bones do you need?
Ilyinsky:
- We need several dozen samples of nationality.
Bachenin:
- So that you can understand that this is definitely not some abandoned bone of a victim from another continent, namely …
Ilyinsky:
- We need to be sure that this is the bone of the Aztecs, and not the victim.
Bachenin:
- That's what I'm talking about.
Ilyinsky:
- In fact, you can make up a certain percentage, how many percent you belong to which population, conventionally, how much Finn, Ukrainian, Jew or someone else you have.
Bachenin:
- Did you do it yourself?
Ilyinsky:
- Yes, I did.
Bachenin:
- What did you expect in the first place?
Ilyinsky:
- I had a certain idea that some of my relatives came from Europe. Indeed, I have certain groups of DNA regions that have similarities to European ones. I didn't have any serious surprises.
Bachenin:
- What kind of surprises can there be?
Ilyinsky:
- As a rule, surprises arise from those people who believe that they are pure someone.
Bachenin:
- But this is nonsense, in the XXI century to think that I am pure, not a drop of "enemy" blood in me.
Ilyinsky:
- Unfortunately, a large number of people think that they are clean whoever they are.
Bachenin:
- I think this is fiction. The genus would be extinct.
Ilyinsky:
- Would die out, of course. It's just that many people like not to think about where they came from. It's nice to think that, conventionally, you are a pure Russian. And even your whole attitude is based on this thesis.
Bachenin:
- It seems to me even unethical.
Ilyinsky:
- Unfortunately, in our country as a whole, such nationalist views are quite strongly developed. From the point of view of nationalism, it is very convenient for people to consider themselves pure.
Bachenin:
- We remember who operated on the purity of blood. As soon as we start reminding ourselves, we will immediately say goodbye to the desire to swagger on the topic "I am a purebred Russian." Is it true they say that a person can be identified by a face?
Ilyinsky:
- This is more a question for anthropologists than for geneticists.
Bachenin:
- Interdisciplinary stories are now at the forefront of the attack.
Ilyinsky:
- There is such an interesting project in the USA. Forensic scientists try to predict a face based on genetics. It would seem that it is very convenient - the criminal left his traces, deciphered the DNA and made a composite sketch. So far, it has been possible to do this at this level: it is, conventionally, African American, this is European … So far, only general strokes have been able to establish this.
Bachenin:
- Only race, it turns out.
Ilyinsky:
- As a rule, yes. Conventionally, the shape of the nose is difficult to predict.
Bachenin:
- Not so advanced genetics or technology? What is missing?
Ilyinsky:
- Our appearance is made up of genetics and a number of external factors - conditionally, a person eats a lot or a little, tans - does not tan, dyes our hair - does not dye our hair. And we do not always understand this relationship between genetics and external factors. At the same time, external factors often prevail, and sometimes genetics also prevail. Genetics can tell a lot about certain signs like eye color or hair color, skin color, but about many things genetics cannot tell in detail - conventionally, what shape of the nose, genetics cannot say with accuracy. Therefore, so far there are many such dubious moments that do not allow matching genes and reconstructing a face.
Bachenin:
- We cross out the face type then. How many percent of the blood of this or that nationality (no other word was invented) is needed for me to consider myself a Russian, an Englishwoman … How to define belonging?
Ilyinsky:
- To consider yourself Russian, you don't have to have Russian blood at all, in my opinion.
Ilyinsky:
- You are talking about self-identification again. And I - about the composition of the blood. Let's agree that we call it nationality. Not in terms of self-identification, but in terms of blood composition and incest. How much should be more than 50%?
Ilyinsky:
- Here everyone decides for himself. In my opinion, there is no clear border. Because almost no one really has 50%. Usually everything consists of small pieces, 10-15-20% of each nationality. Everyone is such a big mosaic. It almost never happens that an ethnic group has more than half or at least half.
Bachenin:
- It is very important to talk about blood purity. Can citizenship be proven? The Israeli embassy for repatriation requires you to prove that you are a Jew. There are rules and principles. So, can the DNA test results that I am Jewish be proof?
Ilyinsky:
- In the case of Israel, as far as I know, it does not work. The Israelis do not demand genetic proof that you are Jewish. But there is, for example, Portugal. It gives, if I understand correctly, citizenship to Sephardic Jews on the basis of a genetic test.
Bachenin:
- How to understand how the Sephardim differ from the Ashkenazim.
Ilyinsky:
- These are different groups of Jews.
Bachenin:
- Have you come from different parts of Africa?
Ilyinsky:
- They are very different genetically. Someone is very strong, in fact an Arab, someone is more European. Here are Ashkenazi Jews - this is how people imagine Jews, such curly-haired, white, and the Sephardim are rather Arabs. And in Portugal, there are genetic tests for the Sephardic people that are applied and perceived.
Bachenin:
- Have they been offended there historically that only they are accepted?
Ilyinsky:
- Yes, there was in relation to the Sephardic …
Bachenin:
- Its Bartholomew's night. Tell me, what else is missing for you as a scientist in terms of the implementation of a DNA test, what progress in science, in technology? And what are you moving towards, what goals are scientists pursuing? What do you want to do, and you are about to do it, or, conversely, before that, still swim and swim?
Ilyinsky:
- Now we know very little about the genetic dispersal of people around the world, because too few people from those billions who now inhabit the Earth have done genetic tests for nationality. A lot of nuances can be discovered by studying some separate groups.
Bachenin:
- But it's expensive. It gets cheaper over time. In my opinion, the test has fallen in price 10 thousand times since the twentieth century.
Ilyinsky:
- The first complete human genome was decoded in 2001, and it cost billions of dollars. Now a similar complete transcript costs several thousand dollars, but this is more of a research task, people do not need it to determine the origin. But from the point of view of determining the origin, the price of a genetic test has practically not dropped for the last three years.
Bachenin:
- What is the problem, why doesn't it fall?
Ilyinsky:
- Technologies are now developed quite strongly, and it is not clear where it can come from a further decline. There are no fundamentally new methods, but the methods that were, they have reached their ceiling.
Bachenin:
- What will it give us if, say, every second person on Earth passes a DNA test?
Ilyinsky:
- In fact, quite a lot for both history and health care. Genetics is related to many different things. In fact, there is a country where every second person passed a DNA test.
Bachenin:
- Name this country.
Ilyinsky:
- Iceland.
Bachenin:
- There are people there - you can count them on the fingers of two hands.
Ilyinsky:
- There are several hundred thousand people. But they did have a government program in which people took DNA tests.
Bachenin:
- Okay, they passed. So what?
Ilyinsky:
- On the one hand, they managed to clarify many issues related to the origin. These are some local things that interest a particular small population. But this is still an interesting example of how such widespread genotyping of people can be useful to historians. On the other hand, they have certain health problems. Because this is a group of people who live in isolation from the rest of the world. And in all such groups, there are often some specific diseases, mutations that spread. And, knowing these mutations, it is possible to plan a pregnancy in a special way in order to practically zero the probability of having sick children.
Bachenin:
- It turns out that we stimulate a couple who are planning to become parents to do a test, thus, strive to ensure that the child is born without genetic diseases.
Ilyinsky:
- The test itself does not affect the risks, it is a diagnostic tool. But at the same time, thousands of different hereditary diseases are known. And doctors cannot test people for all thousands, they need to know what to test for. And the test just shows which diseases are at risk. They are usually there, but there are 1-2 of them.
Bachenin:
- Are there any problems in Russia that would be solved if everyone, within the framework of the state program, did this DNA test?
Ilyinsky:
- First, there are historical questions. There are many different nationalities in Russia, a huge number of small nationalities, the origin of which is not so clear, not so obvious. With the help of a DNA test, it would be possible to more clearly understand where they come from, who is related to whom, and who is not related to whom. Because in the Caucasus it often happens that, conventionally, two villages living across the river are very distant relatives to each other, and two villages in different parts of the Caucasus are very close relatives. This is the first moment.
The second point is about the health and birth of people with hereditary diseases.
Bachenin:
- Is it like all over the world or do we have our own trouble?
Ilyinsky:
- All over the world, about 3% of children are born with hereditary diseases, and in Russia - less than 1%.
Bachenin:
- Is it a problem?
Ilyinsky:
- This is a problem, because genetically we are the same as in the whole world.
Bachenin:
- So it's just not true?
Ilyinsky:
- Yes, that's not true. In Russia, the situation with the diagnosis of hereditary diseases is very bad. And a huge number of people are with such and such incomprehensible symptoms, in fact, without a diagnosis.
Bachenin:
- We could solve the problem, for example, of cystic fibrosis, so that fewer children are born, we could solve the problem of Down's disease, so that fewer children are born.
Ilyinsky:
- In the case of Down's disease, this is such a special case. Because Down's disease cannot be predicted for a couple, it is an accident.
Bachenin:
- That is, this is another mutation that the parents do not have?
Ilyinsky:
- Yes, parents do not have it, it occurs when a child is conceived. Cystic fibrosis and many other diseases are inherited from their parents. If parents know in advance that they carry this mutation, then with the help of IVF, which is reimbursed by the state, it is easy to prevent the birth of a sick child. But for this you need to know what mutation the parents carry. And this can only be found out with a genetic test. These programs have been around for a long time in different countries. In the USA and Canada there is a program for Jews on Jewish diseases, in Iran there is a program for Iranians on their diseases since the 70s.
Bachenin:
- So I'm asking you about the national disaster. What is the most progressive disease? You just said: for their Jewish diseases. Do you mean the diseases that are most prevalent in this nation? And what about us?
Ilyinsky:
- We have many different nations, and in different regions, different diseases are found. Therefore, this option will not work for us. In Iran, one very common disease is beta thalassemia, and everyone is tested for this beta thalassemia.
Bachenin:
- And here, probably, by regions. What do we have in central Russia, what scourge?
Ilyinsky:
- The middle band is just phenylketonuria, deafness, cystic fibrosis. This is what occurs most often. If we take Yakutia, for example, there are 5 Yakut diseases that are found only in Yakutia with a high frequency and nowhere except Yakutia. It is possible in each group, in each region, to identify its most frequent diseases. And you can make it easier. Let's take Moscow. What test to do in Moscow? For Yakuts, for central Russia, you can make a universal test. In the United States last year, it was recommended to do one universal test, which allows you to detect most of the diseases. And such a test - that you are Yakut, that you are Russian, no matter what, it will still reveal the risks that exist.
Bachenin:
“It’s clear what benefit it would be if everyone did a DNA test. Let's go back from medicine to genealogy. I realized that by passing a DNA test, I can determine how many nationalities I have, in what percentage. What else can I identify?
Ilyinsky:
- For example, Neanderthals used to live in Europe. This is such a lateral branch of human development. These are the ancestors of people, this is such a dead-end branch. For some time, both Neanderthals and people, in fact, homo sapiens, lived on the territory of modern Europe. And they crossed among themselves. And such hybrids were formed between Neanderthals and humans. In fact, almost all Europeans have a certain proportion of genes inherited from Neanderthals.
Bachenin:
- And I have?
Ilyinsky:
- Most likely, you also have.
Bachenin:
“I thought we were oppressing them, oppressing and exterminating them.
Ilyinsky:
- As a result, they became extinct, but the Europeans have 1-2-3%. At the same time, Africans do not have the Neanderthal gene, because they did not interbreed with them.
Bachenin:
- Genetic examinations of some historical figures, famous persons have been carried out. Can I find out? Maybe Nifertiti herself is in my family.
Ilyinsky:
- For most dynasties like the Romanovs, their genetic markers are known, so anyone can find out.
Bachenin:
- Poklonskaya, probably, turned to you.
Ilyinsky:
- Poklonskaya did not contact us. Zhirinovsky turned to us.
Bachenin:
- Did Vladimir Volfovich have any requests of his own?
Ilyinsky:
- he wanted to prove his relationship with Napoleon.
Bachenin:
- And he knew him, it turns out? Why did he choose Napoleon and not Kutuzov, for example?
Ilyinsky:
- This is such a difficult question. We are all related. If we want to prove the relationship with Napoleon, we will prove it. The question is how long ago our common ancestors lived.
Bachenin:
- That is, before Napoleon or after Napoleon?
Ilyinsky:
- No. Most likely, they lived before Napoleon, once upon a time we had a common ancestor with Napoleon. And if he lived, conventionally, 10 thousand years ago, when the entire population of the Earth was measured by several thousand, then there are such relatives of Napoleon - half the country.
Bachenin:
- And if he lived next to Napoleon, then a relative, it turns out?
Ilyinsky:
- We have inquiries when people ask to prove that they are relatives of the Romanovs.
Bachenin:
- And we have many relatives of the Romanovs?
Ilyinsky:
- If you count on such a distant relationship …
Bachenin:
- Not distant, but those serious, about whom we can say: yes, you are relatives.
Ilyinsky:
- They are few. They are usually well known.
Bachenin:
- There is such a topic now - to send your biological material abroad and receive answers from there, although we also carry out this. Does it make sense to send somewhere abroad?
Ilyinsky:
- Previously, it made sense, because before 2010 there was no technology in Russia that would allow doing such in-depth research. Now there is no difference, because the same devices, the same reagents, everything is the same are used both in Russia and abroad. And from the point of view of quality - what to take here, what is abroad, no difference. In terms of price, there is practically no difference either.
Bachenin:
- And you receive orders, for example, not specifically for Napoleon Ivanovich, but simply: find me a connection with someone known.
Ilyinsky:
- Almost every person has some famous …
Bachenin:
- You don't tell me about frivolous. Tell me about the serious ones.
Ilyinsky:
- For each person, serious or frivolous is his own. Is Ozzy Osbourne serious or not?
Bachenin:
- Of course, serious. And what, there were such?
Ilyinsky:
- His markers are also published, he is not shy about this information. It is also quite possible to compare yourself with famous modern personalities.
Bachenin:
- Whose other markers have been published? Who can we aim at, except our William Shakespeare?
Ilyinsky:
- There are many modern people, many Russian pop stars.
Bachenin:
- And Alla Borisovna?
Ilyinsky:
- According to Alla Borisovna, in my opinion, no.
Bachenin:
- And which of the Russian pop stars published their markers?
Ilyinsky:
- Here you need to look at what marker we want to talk about - about the paternal line, about the maternal.
Bachenin:
- You can't cook porridge with scientists. They will always ask you a counter question and take you away from the topic.
Ilyinsky:
- There are a lot of different nuances.
Bachenin:
- In court, it is now considered proof: I am your relative, please, me half an apartment?
Ilyinsky:
- The court has its own forensic medical tests. Naturally, these tests are accepted by the court, this is an important element of proof. Another thing is that by passing a DNA test to find out your origin, you can protect yourself from such surprises. If you do not want to search for relatives, do not want to participate in such a search for relatives, prohibit it. Because we are not a court company, we are not obliged to give out information to the court about who you are a father or son to.
Bachenin:
- Thank you, Valery.
MARIA BACHENINA
