Before you - the last interview with Avi Greif, considered the "father of Israeli ufology", who was over the past decades, until his ridiculous death in a car accident, the most authoritative expert in the Middle East on all issues related to UFOs.
An engineer by profession, a scientist by vocation, an incorrigible romantic by nature, Greif from childhood read books and articles about "flying saucers" and aliens, and then this hobby grew into something more and became destiny. For many years, Greif was president of the Israel Association for the Study of Unidentified Flying Objects, and has published a number of books on the appearance of UFOs over Israel. So the topic of this interview is clear - Israel and UFOs.
Mr. Greif, when for the first time, according to your information, UFOs were recorded over the territory of modern Israel and - wider - Israel within its biblical borders?
- There is no doubt that UFOs have been observed here all the time. In fact, if one wishes, the entire Tanakh can be explained as a history of the relationship of the ancient Jews with an alien mind. Already in the first book of the Torah - "Genesis" - we meet a mention of the "sons of the great" who came from heaven and took earthly women as wives, who bore them children. And the exodus from Egypt - all these “pillars of fire”, “clouds”, a thunderous voice that sounded from Mount Sinai, Moshe's ascent to it to receive the tablets? And further: the mysterious nature of the Ark; the mystery of the "Holy of Holies" in the Tabernacle and the Temple; the strange disappearance of the Ark …
And, of course, the story of the prophet Eliyahu, (in Orthodoxy Ilya) ascended to heaven on a fiery chariot, and a number of midrashes associated with King Solomon, to whom Asmo-dei brought a two-headed man from the "country of Tevel", that is, literally translated " from Space ". The possibility of such a view of the Tanakh is well known, many articles have been written on this topic, but I am not engaged in this. I am trying to investigate what is happening in Israel today, to track and as objectively as possible describe the incidents of UFO sightings in our days, as they say, here and now.
Since when have UFOs been observed in Israel and recorded cases of their appearance?
- I started doing this seriously in 1987. A few more years later, I created the Israel UFO Research Association, which lasted until 2008. Before that, as far as I know, there were no associations of ufologists in Israel, no UFO sightings were conducted, and even if there were reports of some mysterious phenomena in the media, they remained unnoticed. There are sporadic reports of the 1940s and 1970s, but there are only a few of them, and it is difficult to say how trustworthy they are.
How do you explain such indifference of society to such a fascinating topic?
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- Israel is a young country with many problems: economic, political and others. Israelis are so preoccupied with these issues that they often have no time to raise their heads and look at the stars. But when in the 80s and 90s, several "waves" of UFO sightings swept over Israel, so that many people witnessed this phenomenon, interest in it increased, but then began to subside and eventually practically faded away.
By 2008, there was almost nothing left of our organization, in which at first several hundred people took part. Alas, it became unprofitable to publish an internal newspaper, organize seminars and conferences. Then, as I said, I closed the Society's activities and created a website on the Internet. With the help of this site, anyone who has seen a UFO can contact me, convey their testimony, photographs or drawings taken by him, and I will already analyze this material and, if I consider it credible, I will add it to the archive. So the work continues.
Almost every month I record several UFO sightings over Israel. At the same time, over the past decades in Israel, several UFO sightings and contacts with alien intelligence have been recorded, which, as they say, went down in the history of world ufology.
As I noted, UFOs "have a habit" of appearing in "waves". That is, over a number of years, isolated cases have been recorded, the number of their eyewitnesses is negligible, and suddenly an "invasion" begins: dozens, or even hundreds of people become witnesses of certain mysterious celestial phenomena or even the landing of aircraft of various shapes. There were two such waves in Israel - in 1993 and 1996. I remember then I was driving my car from one city to another, the phone in the house was ringing incessantly …
So, in 1996, a pensioner from Natsrat-Ilit, Yuri Izakov, went out of his house to a store, and suddenly, as he said, a large, strangely shaped aircraft landed near him. Two creatures emerged from it and led Izakov into this apparatus. There he was subjected to some kind of research, during which he was sprinkled with some strange material, and then released back.
Recovering himself, Izakov went to the police to file a complaint. He did not believe in any UFOs and sincerely believed that he was the victim of some stupid prank. By this time, the police had testimony from local boys that a "flying saucer" had recently landed in their city, and the police simply did not know what to do with it.
At first they laughed at the boys, but when Izakov appeared and began to tell what had happened to him, they were not laughing. Izakov was sent to the hospital for examination. It was with great difficulty that the powder caused by unknown creatures was removed from his body, since it included aluminum dust. This means that it was impossible to simply wash off the powder - it ignited at the moment the water got on the skin. As a result, experts established the complete chemical composition of this powder.
Another curious case from the same "wave" of 1996: on December 23, in the village of Ahikhud, located between Akko and Karmiel, 30-year-old Ziona Damati found a strange creature about 15 centimeters high near her cowshed …
Well, of course! I remember this story well - all the newspapers then wrote that the Damati family found an alien on their farm, who at first was alive and then died. The noise continued until it became clear that the "alien corpse" was nothing more than a cow's miscarriage
- Unfortunately, the media did not write the whole truth then, but a half-truth - this, as you know, is a lie. There was nothing in the newspapers that for several days before Tziona Damati found this creature, UFOs were constantly seen over the village of Ahikhud, and for some reason sheep began to disappear there for some reason. The policemen who arrived in the village decided to look at the find of Ziona Damati.
Remains of an Alleged Little Alien
In his testimony, one of them noted that the creature looked like a little man, it moved quickly, jumped and did somersaults in the air, and then suddenly exploded. By the way, here's a drawing of this creature, which was made by Ziona Damati herself … So, the remains of the "miracle Yuda" were carefully collected and transferred to the Institute of Forensic Science "Abu Kabir" and to some laboratory in England. At the same time, the newspapers wrote that it was about miscarriage of a cow and nothing more.
Meanwhile, the experts' response came only a few months later. What conclusion the British came to, I do not know. But I have a conclusion of our Institute "Abu-Kabir" signed by its director, Professor Yehuda Gisa, which says that we are talking about a biological material unknown to science with a different structure of cells. But for some unknown reason, all the major media then refrained from publishing the data of this examination. Only a few local newspapers did publish small notes on this matter.
And, finally, the third famous case of the "wave" happened already in May 1997, when a soldier of the Israeli army disappeared for two days. When he appeared, he said that he was trying to catch a passing car, when a strange, deafening silence suddenly hung in the air, his whole body was suddenly seized by cold, and then he saw some strange creatures, in front of which was a table with no less strange metal objects. He was told to choose one of these items, and when he chose, he found himself with these creatures inside the aircraft.
The most interesting thing is that I learned about this incident … from the police. They found a soldier a few kilometers from the highway, overgrown with a beard, dying of thirst. The police turned to me for advice - they wanted to know how much the story of this soldier was similar to the truth from the point of view of a ufologist. I answered them what I thought: judging by the details of the story, the guy is telling the truth. But the most interesting thing is that his stories instantly, without additional questions, were believed in the army! A soldier of a semi-secret elite unit was absent for two days, it is not clear where, and when he announced that he was on board a UFO, no one thought to judge him for desertion! Does this surprise you?
You want to say that the Israeli army is in contact with the aliens and the abduction of the last soldier was carried out with the knowledge and consent of the General Staff?
“I don't know if the Israeli army is in touch with these creatures or not. I am not saying this. But the fact that the IDF is observing UFOs and has all the information about their every appearance is beyond doubt. They clearly spotted the apparatus that kidnapped the soldier, and therefore knew that he was telling the truth. We have sent inquiries to the IDF press service several times about the UFO sightings.
Often they answer that no UFOs exist and the army does not know anything about them. However, when UFOs appeared over the city of Beit Shemesh, dozens of people saw both these aircraft and the fact that our aircraft flew at some distance from them. We inquired about this from the army's press service, and we were told something like this: we all know, we have everything under control, the citizens of Israel have nothing to worry about.
Have you seen UFOs yourself?
- Yes, and more than once. In just two years that I have been living in the Osa-fiya village, I have recorded 4 cases of their appearance over the village. Rather, one of them was fixed by my Arab neighbor and called me to look - this object hung over Osafia for six hours in total. Another time a neighbor told me that she had seen a UFO. I didn't really believe her, but the next evening I saw him myself. It was a small red ball of light …
Do you want to say that UFOs specially from time to time visit those who are interested in them?
- By the way, there is such a version. But let's put all the points right away: I do not deal with versions and theories, I am collecting facts. Nothing is ruled out. Perhaps the whole point is that UFOs appear in our country very often, but most are not inclined to notice them. But those who, like me, focus on observing them, notice them more often than others.
And yet, which of the existing theories do you believe in? Who do you think is sitting inside the UFO - aliens, guests from the future, inhabitants of parallel worlds?
-I repeat: no matter what theory I believe in, I am dealing with facts. The facts say the following: UFOs really exist, and the more our technology improves, the more we get evidence of this. This is the first fact. Remember the UFO sighting over the Temple Mount in Jerusalem in January 2011!
Now it is already known for sure that we are not talking about installation or falsification. Although, however, this was clear from the very beginning: if six people, previously unfamiliar with each other, who do not believe in the existence of UFOs, present six videos that recorded the same phenomenon at the same time, this cannot be falsification. Second fact: UFOs have appeared over the Earth in the past. The third fact, which is already based only on eyewitness accounts: the possibilities they have are far superior to those of a modern person.
Is there, according to your observations, a certain pattern between the appearance of UFOs over Israel and the events that are taking place in our region? I mean, don't they show increased activity, say, during the Arab-Israeli wars?
- No, I personally do not see such a pattern. At the same time, if we begin to follow the most widespread ufological theory, extraterrestrial civilizations, no doubt, are watching everything that happens on Earth. They do not want to interfere with our development, but make sure that humanity does not do stupid things and destroy itself.
They will intervene if necessary. In this regard, by the way, I am completely calm about the Iranian nuclear threat. Not Americans, but extraterrestrial civilizations will not allow an Iranian nuclear strike against Israel. This is my personal conviction. Do you want to make a bet on this? Although on my part it will be a win-win: after all, if Iran does strike such a blow, I will not have to pay the loss, and you will not need your winnings … But I am convinced that they do not want a catastrophe on Earth, and in the event of a threat such a disaster they will intervene.
Or maybe, on the contrary - they want to destroy us?
- If they wanted it, they would have destroyed us long ago - they have the opportunity for this.
- In recent years in Israel there have been several noisy stories related to UFOs, and I would like to hear your opinion about them. Let's start with the spilled, their demands to build an alien embassy in Jerusalem, as well as rumors that it is in Israel that they are hiding the first clone girl …
- Least of all I would like to talk about the Raelites. This is just a typical sect based on the UFO interpretation of the Bible. The members of this sect do not need facts - it is enough for them that its founder Rael claims that he came into contact with the "elohim" who created intelligent life on Earth. The rest of the sect just take his word for it - that's all. Moreover, it finally became clear that this was a sect, when Rael demanded that his followers bequeath all their property to the movement he created. Where the smell of money appears, objectivity ends …
In connection with your last phrase, I cannot but recall the scam of the late 1990s, when a network of clinics was opened in the city of Rishon LeZion, in which supposedly invisible aliens treated people for all diseases. You don't feel anything, you don't see anyone, you lie on your bed, and they treat you. The funny thing is that hundreds, if not thousands of people fell for it, and the owners of the clinics earned millions …
- You will probably be surprised if I say that, in my opinion, it was still not quite a scam. It became a scam later. I have closely followed this whole story, and therefore I will briefly recall it. So, a certain resident of Riiiyun Le-Zion suddenly announced that some highly developed alien civilization was in contact with him, which is really ready to cure the Israelis from all diseases. As you said - lie down and get medical treatment. The clinic opens, and several miraculous healings are recorded in it, and doctors confirm this. Following this, several more people report that they have come into contact with extraterrestrial intelligence, and open the same clinics. And there, too, healings are recorded. Then healings stop, everything bursts, and it becomes clear to everyone that this is a scam …
Do you have any other explanation for this?
- Since I spoke with the founder of the clinic, and his testimony, oddly enough, inspired my confidence, I allowed myself to put forward the following version. Perhaps some civilization needed to conduct some research or experiments on people, and the law in force on their planet forbids them to do this without the consent of the "guinea pigs". So they come into contact, get, in fact, such consent, really keep their word and heal a couple of people, and then, without saying goodbye, leave. And what was true in the beginning becomes a scam.
You said that these civilizations do not wish us harm. But, according to some contactees, they were treated very cruelly
- According to the theory that we talked about, our Earth is visited by representatives of many different civilizations. Most of them, apparently, do not really wish us anything bad. But some of them treat people in the same way that our doctors or biologists treat experimental white mice, dogs' or monkeys. In addition, most of the devices that we detect, apparently, are what today are called "non-aircraft", or their crew, most likely, are robots. But all this again is just guesswork. There are few facts to draw any scientific conclusions.
What can you say about the “alien substance” that the former press secretary of your organization David Ronen presents during all his interviews? Let me remind you: he claims to have found this substance immediately after the landing of a giant "flying saucer" in the Mitsperamon Fault. At the same time he collected testimonies from the IDF soldiers who saw this landing
- What David shows is silicon of very high purity - this is the data of laboratory analysis. I want to note that very often pieces of pure silicon are then found at the site of a UFO landing, but how these two phenomena are connected with each other and whether they are connected at all is still completely unclear. In addition, pure, native silicon, although not often, is still found on Earth. I have a difficult personal relationship with Ronen, I do not know exactly where exactly he found this silicon, under what circumstances, so I will refrain from commenting.
Do any of the serious Israeli scientists share your views, support your research?
- I would divide all Israeli scientists into two groups. The first, contrary to the facts, generally denies the existence of UFOs. The second tries to evade a direct answer to the question about UFOs, as he believes that the recognition of their existence will damage their reputation. But, according to polls, 4-5% of Israeli citizens have seen UFOs themselves and over 50% believe in the existence of alien intelligence.
But how scientific and objective can the research and observations you carry out be considered?
-Look, there are recognized methods of processing witness testimony, reports, observations, which began to be developed since the 40s. We use the same methods used by UFO researchers in the United States, Russia and the rest of the world. In addition, over the years, experience comes to distinguish a genuine certificate from a fake. We carefully check the photos that come to us to make sure they are not photomontages. Just recently I received a photograph of a certain translucent creature, inside of which another small creature is visible, perhaps a fetus with wings, like an angel. So far, verification says the photo is genuine. But I will not publish a photo or a report on this case until I am 100% sure of it.
And the last question: if aliens really exist, when do you think they will come out with us on a genuine, broad contact? Why are they delaying?
“I don’t know this, and I think none of the inhabitants of our planet knows. Let's ask ourselves the question: are we ready for this contact? Have you grown to it?
"The X-Files" №26 December 2013