In the summer of 2019, Dmitry Galetsky gave an interview to the World of Secrets website and answered a number of key questions about Peruvian mummies, and also spoke about the process of their research, in which he took personal part.
Our reference:
Dmitry Vladislavovich, you have quite an academic career. In what capacity were you involved in the study of Peruvian mummies?
- I got into the team quite by accident: Konstantin Georgievich Korotkov came to my appointment, for a consultation with a computed tomogram, and in the process of communication, seeing the possibilities of diagnostics, asked if I could look at some more tomograms. He told me their story, complained that many experts disown them or give a very superficial conclusion. Paleontologists said: “Give us a bone and we will tell you what it is. What are you showing us CT?"
How can one complete the entire dinosaur one bone at a time, say how much it ate, weighed, how fast it moved, and at the same time deny a complete CT scan? We live in the 21st century, when planar X-rays are becoming a thing of the past, CT scans appear, genetic studies at a very high level. And you cannot completely trust this. Studying these CT scans in detail, you find yourself in "X-ray space", where no one has been before, and each step is something new, unusual. This is insanely interesting!
A doctor by nature is always an adventurer, and I gladly accepted his offer. In addition, when collecting material for teaching students, you always look for unique situations and put them in the "archive", therefore, even when diagnosing simple cases, I look through CT scans completely, all the details so as not to miss that interesting, unusual (from a professional point of view) that can decorate my collection.
Did you study the mummies of Peru only remotely or was there an opportunity to study the burial site and see them?
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- We were lucky enough to visit the places where they were found: we went to Peru to speak in parliament, and before that we received an offer to visit the cave (which we naturally could not refuse). We climbed the mountain and climbed into the cave. In addition, the Peruvian who found them, his name is Mario, invited us to his house and showed two more similar mummies.
For what purpose did you fly to speak in parliament?
- You know, there are a lot of skeptical statements and distrust of these findings. Gaia organized this conference and won the attention of parliamentarians and the press. Experts from Mexico, Peru, Russia and the United States were invited to conduct the research. The main pathologist of the Mexican Navy, biologist and radiologist from Peru, genetics from Mexico acted.
Our report was a brief report on the work of the staff of St. Petersburg University (Serebryakova E. B., Glotova A. S.), geneticists of the Ott Research Institute of Obstetrics and Gynecology (Baranova V. S.), our results of the CT study are presented.
We flew there with one goal - to convey to the government of Peru that these are unique artifacts. And one of the main tasks is to preserve them for humanity, which means that these artifacts must not only be placed in a sarcophagus with an environment that prevents decomposition, but also be protected from being sold to private collections.
Moreover, to end all controversy, it is necessary to convince the government to conduct an independent comprehensive study under the auspices of the government, with sampling and research on modern equipment that is not available in Peru.
What do you think was the reason for such an amazing preservation of the mummies? Is this some kind of ancient and unknown way of mummification?
- I think that the reason for the preservation of the mummies was the constant temperature regime in the cave, constant humidity and the environment of diatomaceous earth. In addition, we must pay tribute to nature - Peru has a fairly stable temperature.
Please tell us more about what "kieselguhr" is
- Kieselguhr, also called diatomite, is a natural substance extracted from lake deposits. It consists of fossilized diatoms. They are a specific type of unicellular planktonic algae that lived in oceans and old freshwater lakes. The shells or shells of these microscopic organisms are very rich in silica.
In the cave where we were, all surfaces are covered with diatomaceous earth. There was a fairly thick layer of powder on the floor. When we moved through the cave, it rose up as fine dust and hung in the air for a long time, settling on clothes and skin, respirators saved us a lot.
There are articles that indicate that diatomaceous earth binds lipids and takes away water, and therefore it is used to fight insects. The Ph of diatomaceous earth is in the alkaline range, which also causes a bactericidal effect.
You have studied in some detail the external and internal structure of mummies. Do you think they can be fakes? Skeptics claim that mummies of small creatures are assembled from the bones of various animals - chickens, monkeys, llamas
- I am rather skeptical about some of the material found there - brushes and single very small mummies, and I can only talk about the mummy of Maria, Vavita (this is a child's mummy without anomalies) and a group of mummies like Josephine.
We believe that this cannot be fakes: the studied mummies have features of anatomy that cannot be found in nature. In addition, when a fake is created, it is always simpler in structure, but in this situation we see the complexity of the design. These are ring-shaped ribs - such material cannot be found for a fake. In all animals, the ribs converge at the sternum or are broken, like in a snake.
Features of the structure of the joints - in the form of several balloons, and not cavities (which would be easier to create) also cannot be borrowed from creatures living on earth. And two types of cervical vertebrae, of which one has no analogues among vertebrates! What was it for? This did not affect the appearance of these creatures, and if we assume that the fake was made for sale or fame, then no one sees the vertebrae. They have trauma marks. I looked millimeter by millimeter through the integrity of the skin on CT and did not find traces that spoke of a violation of the integrity for the purpose of introducing and composing tissues. All articular surfaces are consistent.
Is it possible to determine from the remains how these creatures died? And what could have happened during the life of these creatures?
- The number of injuries on the mummies, the nature of the damage, the distance between the injuries can indicate an attack by a large representative of the feline family (presumably a cougar), and in old engravings we see images of these animals living in this region.
So, on CT, we can distinguish a fracture of the cervical spine in Maria, in the pelvic region, an extensive lacerated-bitten wound is visible, from which, apparently, blood was flowing and baked with fragments of a mineral on its side. In this wound, traces of canines and incisors are distinguishable, as well as a nearby lacerated linear wound, which could have been obtained when exposed to a claw. On the skin, in different parts, defects resembling claw marks are visible.
Maria has bone metastases (?), Clubfoot and absence of the calcaneus. It can be assumed that she is weakened and poorly moving in mountainous terrain could become an easy prey. When examining the CT scan, Maria found a mineral (small stones) behind the eyelid of the left eye and in the oral cavity behind the cheek. From this, it can be assumed that the body was dragged along the ground and small stones crammed into these cavities.
On Josephine's spine, paired traces of trauma to the vertebral bodies are visible, trauma to the clavicle and jaw is visible, and the distances between the injuries are almost the same. Poor child Vavita's fingers were torn off, internal organs, scalp and face skin, multiple fractures of the spine and pelvis were removed, and a fragment of skin on the lower back was missing.
All this looks like the animal living in those places hunted for all living things and then dragged them into their cave, leaving a reserve for a "rainy day". In case of a possible earthquake, the entrance could be blocked, and thus these unique samples were preserved.
What do you think about the origin of these creatures?
- I really want to think about something unusual, but since there were no traces and debris of a crashed aircraft nearby, it is impossible to legally talk about an alien origin. Yes, we see atypical anatomy, but there are many examples when on Earth there were species with atypia (according to our concepts), which became extinct - Do-Do birds, dinosaurs. And maybe in this situation we are dealing with representatives of a species that has become extinct.
We are, in general, strange people - we are afraid of everything that is not similar to what we are familiar with, and reject the possibility of the existence of such creatures. But imagine that you were born and lived in a remote forest area, surrounded by cows, chickens, horses, and you get to the seashore, and a crab runs out of the water towards you. What's your first impression? "It can't be!" But this creature with atypical anatomy lived in the sea for millions of years, you just did not know about it …
What is the fundamental difference between Mary and the known structure of Homo Sapiens?
- The fundamental difference concerns the limbs - the hands have three fingers, consisting of four phalanges. In the area of the metacarpus, the dorsal and palmar muscles are absent or not expressed, which may indicate a lack of dilution and pinching movements. There are also three toes on the foot. There is no calcaneal tubercle (such an anomaly is rare, but occurs today). The CT scan failed to detect the kidneys and ureters. The rest of the structure is similar.
Skeptics argue that this is the mummy of a person who, at some stage, had two fingers removed on each limb. To what extent is this possible and is this confirmed by the examination of the mummy?
- It is always convenient to assert when there is little information, without having survey results. On CT, there are no signs of removal; the number of flexor and extensor tendons corresponds to the number of fingers. As for the absence of the dorsal and palmar muscles in the metacarpal region, they were removed for some reason.
Objects were found in one of the mummies in the abdominal cavity, which some call "pebbles", and others "eggs". What is your opinion about these objects?
- There is a Hounsfield scale, according to which one can compare, compare the "X-ray" density with existing formations - water, bone, fat, muscles, etc. On this scale, these three radiopaque objects of ovoid shape and heterogeneous structure have a density of 1926-2016 HU, which does not correspond to calculi. The density of the formations is higher than the density of the cortical plate and the density of calcifications (oxalates and urinary stones 1518 HU).
In places, the tissues of the organs surrounding these formations are in close contact with them, which may indicate the nutrition of the formations and gradual development, and not about artificial introduction. From the pelvic area, a structure resembling an oviduct rises up to the left, with a small (1.7 mm in diameter) dense fourth ovoid inclusion.
The school curriculum tells about the opportunity to study the evolutionary development of a creature through the stages of development of the embryo. Can this method be applied to the examination of an embryo found in one of the eggs thanks to a CT scan?
- I saw two mummies with similar formations in the abdominal cavity. In view of what we received at the stage of post-processing from Josephine, we can say that the embryo in one of the eggs corresponds to the type of an 8-week-old human embryo. The tab of the heart protrusion, the rudiments of the lower and upper extremities, and the forebrain are visible.
We cannot unequivocally name the age of the embryo, since we do not know the period of final formation and hatching: it is different - from 3 weeks in chickens, to 3 months in reptiles. In the rest of the formations, the structure is heterogeneous, you can also see the contents there, but with an increase in the term, the size of the embryo increases, it occupies the entire volume and it becomes impossible to thoroughly examine the details.
What can you say about the implants found on some mummies? What were they used for and what materials were they made of?
- It's hard to say if these are implants and how they are fixed to the body of the creatures. The materials used were different and mostly alloys. So, on Josephine's chest, the structure consists mainly of copper, a metal consisting of iron was found on a torn brush, and on Alberto's thigh it consisted mainly of silver.
- One of the most interesting implant structures, I consider the one that was located on Josephine's chest. Based on the CT scan, she had a severe trauma in this place, most likely a fracture of the bodies of the 5th and 6th cervical vertebrae, as well as a fracture of the sternal ends of the clavicles.
Apparently, an "operation" was carried out: the bodies of the 5th and 6th cervical vertebrae were removed, the fragments of the clavicles were removed, after which they were juxtaposed and a splinting implant or such an aseptic bandage was made for fixation. Who and how had the knowledge of these operations? Either these are the beings themselves, or someone who lived nearby and provided this assistance.
What would you wish our readers?
To readers and everyone who is interested in this topic, I would like to wish more confidence in the results obtained - research by histologists, chemists, geneticists, CT analysis - and not listen to the statements of people sitting on the couch and denying everything, without confirming their statements with any facts.
The interview was conducted by Elena Krumbó,