All living beings have consciousness to one degree or another. British neuroscientist Susan Greenfield announced this on the air of the SophieCo program. In an interview with Sofiko Shevardnadze, she said that the capabilities of modern science are not enough for a full-fledged study of consciousness. According to Greenfield, it is impossible to explain the feeling of love using only a scientific approach. The researcher also explained why it is impossible to get an objective picture of the brain using a scan and what is the difference between mind and soul.
What is consciousness from the point of view of neuroscience? Is it what makes us human? And do animals have consciousness? And when we see dreams, is this also a manifestation of our consciousness?
- I believe that consciousness has different depths and intensities - like a lamp with a dimmer. For example, a rat is conscious, but not like a cat or a dog. They, in turn, cannot have the same consciousness as primates. Another example: the fetus in the womb is also conscious, but not as much as a full-term baby, and so on. A dream is also a peculiar form of consciousness, but without the participation of information from our senses.
The theory of varying intensity of consciousness is just a godsend for science. After all, it is quite possible to say: "Let's not perceive consciousness as something magical, but try to measure it!"
However, consciousness in the mind of an ordinary person is something completely intangible. We know something about some of the functions of the brain - where memory is stored, how signals are transmitted. But where is consciousness physically hidden in the brain?
- In general, for many scientists, consciousness is a problematic issue. Its key features are subjective. I have absolutely no idea what you are experiencing right now. I cannot hack into your consciousness to perceive the world the way you do. There is no need to look for some magical parts of the brain. And when you say: "Where is the memory stored," this is not entirely correct, because there are no special cells. There are groups of brain cells that work together for a very short amount of time.
When you throw a stone into a pond, circles spread across the water. Similar phenomena occur in the brain, where the diameter of the circles corresponds to the depth of consciousness, and the stone is any strong sensory impulse coming from outside. The size of the stone is the number of connections and associations that trigger an object or event. The force with which the stone is thrown is the force of sensation.
I think scientists can begin to investigate consciousness, but here we must admit that our capabilities are quite modest, and understand that we probably will not establish cause-and-effect relationships. I can't tell you how happiness is generated from electrical signals in brain cells and chemicals. How one turns into another is a mystery.
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The phenomena in the brain are like circles in the water from a thrown stone.
“Let's say I decide to bend my finger. The signal goes to my brain, muscles do the physical work. Where is the thought in all this? Does it appear in advance? Or is it somewhere in the process?
- Scientist Benjamin Libet (American neuroscientist in the field of human consciousness, researcher at the Faculty of Physiology at the University of California at San Francisco. - RT) once conducted an experiment, and I repeated it. So, electrodes are installed on a person's head, which register the activity of the brain. You need to press the button whenever you want. What is curious: the person has not yet had time to do this, and the brain activity has already changed. It turns out that changes in the brain occur in advance.
The brain decides before you
- Yes, and it's interesting. Your brain is you. So the words "he decided for you" imply a kind of dualism, which is wrong. I see two sides of the same coin in this: something can be expressed either from the perspective of the brain, or from the perspective of one's own sensations. Both are lawful, and cannot happen at the same time. Another question, what is the medal itself?
Susan Greenfield / RTD.
And yet, if we know what the frontal lobe and both hemispheres are responsible for, why can't we “see” the thought?
- Because the brain does not work as a collection of small brains. Yes, its sections specialize in different things, but they work like instruments that sound in an orchestra or ingredients that form a dish. That is, not in isolation from each other, but together and in concert. For example, vision is provided by about thirty different parts of the brain. Each section is multitasking, like a violin. There is no need to try to reduce everything to any one gene, part of the brain or transmitter, because with this approach something will certainly fall out.
That is, we will not see the thought, even if we create some incredible devices for this?
- You can observe the work of the brain by scanning it. True, on the basis of these studies, erroneous conclusions are often drawn. Seeing light spots in a particular area of the brain, they conclude that there is a center responsible for something, but this is not so.
Many people will say that the main thing is the soul and we will never see it, because it is invisible …
- Let's understand the terms. The brain is a physical object, something tangible. The mind, in my understanding, is the personalization of the brain, thanks to which it adapts to different circumstances. And there is also consciousness, which has subconsciousness and self-consciousness. All of the above is part of the living brain, takes its origin in it.
And there is an immortal soul. I regard it as something separate. Therefore, you need to clearly distinguish between the brain, mind, consciousness and soul. Each of these terms presents an interesting topic worth discussing, but you shouldn't put an equal sign between them.
About love and other feelings they say that these are all hormones - dopamine or serotonin. Can you explain what love is by studying only its biology?
- This is not an explanation, but a description. It's like saying that a chair is a piece of furniture. When you fall in love, you can see a surge in dopamine or endorphins. But this vision will not explain the subjective feeling of love.
To what extent has the human brain been studied today?
- There was such a mythical creature - a hydra. You chop off her head - seven new ones grow in this place. So it is with the brain: the more you learn, the more unknown is revealed.
Author: Sofiko Shevardnadze
