The first and so far the only Spanish astronaut Pedro told RIA Novosti and Sputnik correspondents Elena Shesternina and Virginia Usal Garcia about the possibility of settlements on Mars, the prospects for cooperation between Russia and Spain in the field of high technologies, as well as when China will become the leader of the space industry. Duque, who now holds the post of Minister of Science, Innovation and Universities of Spain. He flew into space twice - in 1998 on the Discovery shuttle and in 2003 on the Soyuz to the ISS.
- At the beginning of the space age, humanity dreamed of conquering new galaxies, living on Venus and Mars, and it seemed that this would happen rather quickly. But many decades later, these plans are still far from being realized. Why did humanity choose other priorities in space exploration and did not begin to develop these programs? There was no point?- Sense, of course, is. But these are complex projects that require the involvement of a huge number of people. 400 thousand people worked on the Apollo program in the USA. I don't know the numbers in Russia, but I think they are similar. The reason for both the USSR and the USA - apart from technological development, the development of mankind - was political rivalry, a race. When the US realized it was winning the space race, it cut its budget to one-fifth of what it had been. And the next step was not taken, the United States began to do other things. In the USSR, when it became clear that the race was lost, the same thing happened, they decided to try to win the race for Mars. Therefore, the first to create space stations, "Soyuz" in the form in which it is, but the USSR could not find the resources to fully implement the Martian program.- Do you remember the moment when you decided to become an astronaut? - My generation grew up in the midst of the space race. Franco was in Spain then, and the race was won by "ours". In 1969, there was only one TV channel and every day they talked about the Apollo mission. Then we all children wanted to be astronauts.
But not everyone who dreams of becoming an astronaut in childhood becomes one
- From the moment I was six (in 1969), and until my thirty, a lot has happened. Despite the fact that we all wanted to be astronauts, we understood that in Spain it was impossible. However, in the 1980s, very strong changes took place, the Law on Science was adopted, which provided for the allocation of funds, and a lot of technical and scientific research was carried out. We started to become more actively involved in the European Space Agency (ESA), and after a few years it became possible.
There is an interesting graph that compares the number of Ph. D. studies in science and engineering with changes in NASA's budget. They are interdependent. What's happening in China now? There are no vacancies in institutes that train engineers. Students understand that they will be participating in the most advanced projects in the world. All Chinese want to be engineers: a huge amount of technology is being created in the country.
Can the Chinese become leaders in space in twenty or even ten years?
- A huge number of people must be involved in space programs, very complex things must be done in the technological field. A good project takes about 15 years. But the Chinese have been doing this for many years, attracting a lot of resources and moving forward. When can they become leaders? If Europe or the United States does not increase resources, and the Chinese continue to increase, they will be able to overtake. 20 years is possible.
The Chinese space program is rather closed, I know much more about what is happening in Russia than about what is happening in China. But they attract specialists from other countries, including, of course, from Russia. I think that even if they now have a lack of something to become a leader, it will be overcome in ten years.
“However, the Chinese are simultaneously carrying out several large programs. To what extent can they do them in parallel?
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- The question is in quantity. The Apollo program involved 400,000 people; with current technology, less is needed to do the same. These are small volumes for China. China's lag behind other countries is shrinking. The first Soviet "Lunokhod" landed on the moon in 1970. China has already reached 1970 - they are on the moon. Of course, this is a slightly improved "Lunokhod" - with a communications satellite, which did not exist in 1970. The technology gap is getting smaller. Europe, and Russia as well, needs to make a fundamental decision. If we continue as we do now, at some point we will no longer have any technological advantage. We must prioritize. What do we want? Do we want to be the first or not?
What major international projects does Spain participate in?
- Spain, of course, actively participates in European space projects. There are several bilateral projects, for example, with NASA. The last spacecraft to land on Mars has one instrument made in Spain. We have an Earth observation satellite due to launch this year. Within the framework of the European Space Agency, whose council will be held in Seville in October, ESA will propose a series of programs, Spain will participate in many of them. Spanish industry is increasingly participating in ESA programs. I recently saw the ESA satellite, the final assembly and testing of which took place in Spain, and will soon be launched. So our participation is increasing.
During the crisis years, there was a very significant reduction in funding - for space programs, probably by 50%. If funding is cut, you may be far behind. Funding was restored three years ago, but the gap remains. We are not included in the programs that were launched in those years. We will try to increase our participation where we can, because it pulls science along with it, gives scientists the opportunity to study data obtained from satellites, spurs industry, attracts young people who understand that they can participate in very significant projects. Of course, this applies not only to space, but also to science in general.
Have the sanctions somehow affected scientific cooperation with Russia?
- It is difficult for me to answer this question, I have held the post of minister not so long ago. But I can say: no one asked me for help in solving problems related to sanctions, in order to work with Russia. I think that cooperation continues at the same level. No scientist - I can assure you - has enough money to be blacklisted.
Spain was supposed to supply an additional ultraviolet camera for the search for exoplanets for the Russian ultraviolet observatory Spectrum-UV. Will this be done?
- Several years ago, the Spanish participation decreased (due to financial problems - ed.), But last year we allocated money, so everything is confirmed. The budget provides for continued financing of the project.
Are there any other bilateral projects expected?
- There are many projects that should be started with Russia. It is obvious. We will hold a bilateral Year of Higher Education and Science.
When exactly?
- 2019 or 2020. Let's try to get it started in 2019. We want to expand our ties. Several years ago there was a bilateral Year of Tourism. Now we will spend the Year of Education, Higher Education and Science. I think it is important for the world to know that Spain is a country of advanced technologies. Spain, more than any other European country, participates in joint European projects. Spain also ranks first in terms of the number of EU funding for small businesses in competitive areas. Spanish small businesses are the most technologically advanced in all of Europe. And you need to know about this. Now, if Russian companies are looking for technology partners, they turn to Germany - as if it were the only country. However, it is possible that similar technologies exist in Spain.
And cheaper
- Maybe cheaper. Or more advanced for the same price. It seems to me that it is even easier for Russian companies to cooperate with Spain. I lived in Russia and know the mentality a little. It is more difficult for Russia to cooperate with a country that is trying to surpass it. It's difficult for Russians. We Spaniards don't care, because we are all taller (laughs). We cooperate with everyone, we have no problems with that. For two tech companies, neither of which is trying to bypass the first, it is much easier to collaborate. Spanish technology companies would be very happy to expand cooperation with Russia.
You worked with both Russians and Americans. Who is more difficult with?
- It is difficult to draw general conclusions. In some areas it is easier with some, in others with another. But in the field of high technologies, in the space industry, the most prepared people are everywhere. You cannot approach a rocket if you are not a good technician, capable, disciplined, responsible. So it is in Russia and in the United States.
In terms of concluding contracts, what is written in an agreement with an American company means a lot. If you sign a contract with a Russian company, you should take into account the circumstances and know them. Not everything is spelled out in the contract, you must know people, you must have more personal connections. You just need to understand this. I think we Spaniards have a better understanding of how we deal with Russians than Germans or Finns.
Is it possible that the second Spaniard will fly into space in the foreseeable future?
- Let's hope. The question is not that there are no qualified personnel in Spain, of course they are. Spanish engineers work in all industries in Europe. They have a very high qualification, they have a huge degree of responsibility. As well as the Spanish scientists. The crux of the problem is that Europe as a whole takes very little part in manned flights and there is little opportunity for the Spaniards. In 2009 he passed the selection and not a single Spaniard passed. There was no one after me, although there are many very qualified and even more qualified people than me. Hopefully next time there will be a Spaniard.
How do you feel about Elon Musk's plans to create a settlement on Mars? How realistic are these plans?
- Of course, everything is possible. And less than 400 thousand people will be needed, since technologies in many areas can be bought, you do not need to completely invent them. It should be borne in mind that these 400,000 people who worked on the Apollo program invented the microcomputer and copier, which did not exist. Many things had to be reinvented from scratch. And thanks to this, the United States became leaders for several decades. The investment was profitable.
But Musk must have government support. Elon Max will have to sell his missiles to the government of any country. There are no private investors who will invest with a 25-30 year perspective. A company that aims to make money cannot make money on a flight to Mars, there is no business opportunity here.
Space tourism?
“Maybe someone will pay to go to Mars and return. But we need to send people and hundreds of tons of supplies. I don't think space tourism to Mars and things like that will be easy. Imagine how much it will cost. But short flights into space, to rise above the atmosphere for a few minutes, I think, will begin this year, the first test was recently. Let's see how this business will develop. If there are enough people who pay what it costs, it is possible that it will develop.
Is it possible that someday the cost of a flight into space will be comparable to the cost of an airplane flight?
- This is more complicated than what happened with the planes. In addition, in the case of airplanes, it took 20-30 years. Let's see if we can fly into space like that. In the beginning, those who flew airplanes were rich, crazy and some did not return. It might be better in space.