It's no secret that emotions affect our well-being. When we are sad, the body seems to lose all its strength, and, conversely, when we are happy, we feel an incredible surge of energy. But there are much more global processes that the science of neuroimmunophysiology studies. Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, specialist of the Department of General Pathology and Pathophysiology of the Institute of Experimental Medicine Elena Andreevna Korneva spoke about the difficult path of the formation of science and how important positive emotions are.
This year you are celebrating your anniversary. What are your plans for the future and for further scientific activity?
- Plans are dark, but no one knows what will happen tomorrow. After all, life is finite … Let's try!
Tell us what is science - neuroimmunophysiology, to which you devoted your scientific activities?
- This is a very interesting science. When we started working on it, it was believed that the immune system is autonomous and in the body exists by itself. Immunologists said that a leukocyte - a cell of the immune system - knows what to do. And it is true. But the heart cell knows what to do, and the liver cell also knows, and, nevertheless, their work is regulated by the nervous system.
At the initiative of my boss, the prominent physiologist Dmitry Andreevich Biryukov and immunologist Vladimir Ilyich Ioffe, we studied the influence of the nervous system on the functions of the immune system and found that there is a certain structure in the brain that affects the activity of the immune system. If this zone is destroyed, then the immune response to a foreign origin - a virus, bacteria - changes significantly.
Physiologists accepted these results immediately, because there was the necessary knowledge and understanding that the brain regulates the processes in the body. And immunologists are not. At scientific meetings, they spoke with remarks like - this is not, because this cannot be. And we, of course, have come a very difficult path.
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In addition, there was an academician, I will not name him, who did not like our research. He was to some extent an expert in this area, but there was no evidence. This academician hired a colleague with a special purpose - to refute our results.
The employee was, in general, an honest person. He simply did not have a choice, because in those days it was very difficult to get a job, and even as a senior researcher. They beat him incredibly at all symposia.
Later, our “beloved enemy” acknowledged our correctness publicly at one of the conferences, and our research was recognized as a discovery, which was rare. That was the beginning.
What have we achieved? In retrospect, it turns out to be quite a lot. We have shown that the brain affects the functions of the immune system, but if it does, then it must know that at a certain moment some foreign protein has entered the body. Does he know? To answer this question, we studied how the electrical activity of the brain changes. It turned out that with the introduction of the antigen, the activity of the brain changes, including in the zone that we talked about. The brain really "knows" about the presence of a foreign protein, such as bacteria, in the body. However, it was not known how he would know about it. At that time, there were simply no methods for studying this issue.
Today we know that information comes to the brain in different ways, for example, through the blood. There is a barrier in the brain - the so-called blood-brain barrier, which is designed to protect our brain. For example, it does not let some large molecules pass at all. But there are more permeable zones in this barrier, which are permeable to a number of chemical transmitters that “report” that a foreign protein is present in the body.
Soon, another interesting method for studying the reactions of the brain appeared, allowing you to see not just an element of the picture, but the whole picture as a whole. The fact is that when neurons are activated, a certain gene is expressed in them, which signals that the cell is activated, it has begun to work. With the introduction of antigen, one can see certain reactions of the brain. These are incredibly beautiful pictures. You can see which cells are activated, where and in what quantity when the antigen is injected. We managed to find out that with the introduction of different antigens, different structures are activated and to varying degrees. It became clear that the introduction of various antigens causes a reaction in the brain that is characteristic of the response to this antigen.
What we do is important for the protection of the body and for the search for new medicines. Some modern methods of treatment are based precisely on influencing the immune system through the nervous system.
For example, American colleagues injected septic shock in mice. (Treatment of sepsis and septic shock is an important public health problem. It causes more than a million deaths globally each year, with a death rate of about one in four. Sepsis is organ dysfunction caused by a patient Infection Septic shock is an extremely severe manifestation of sepsis, which is accompanied by severe cellular and metabolic disorders with a high risk of death. - Approx. HP) In one hundred percent of cases, septic shock in mice in the experiment led to death. But the impact on certain nerve fibers affected the immune system and saved the mice from death in 80% of cases. This is the result of scientific developments in this area.
What was your path to this area of science, why did you choose it?
- To some extent, this is a coincidence. But the decision, of course, was mine. My Ph. D. and doctoral dissertations were devoted to the study of the evolution of reflex regulation of cardiac activity.
But soon the question arose before me - what to do next - the heart or neuroimmunophysiology. I even consulted about this with my friend, the smartest man Henrikh Virtanyan. He advised me to continue studying the regulation of cardiac activity, but I did not obey. Perhaps the only time in my life did not follow his advice.
We have overcome many difficulties. But on the other hand, every small victory was a great holiday for us. We had an amazing team. Many of my students now head scientific laboratories in Russia and abroad. I think the choice was right.
Is it true that the immune and nervous systems are similar?
- Yes, that's right. They are really similar, but they noticed it late. The fact is that approximately the same number of cells work in these systems, only the cells of these two systems perceive, process, store the necessary information in memory and form a response.
In addition, as it turned out later, these systems contain receptors that perceive a certain effect. And these are receptors for the same chemical agents - regulators, which are produced by cells of the nervous or immune system. That is, there is a constant dialogue between these systems.
How does stress affect the immune system?
- Stress does affect the function of the immune system. But there are two types of stress: the first negatively affects a person, and the second positively, stimulating the functions of the immune system. We tried to understand these mechanisms, and found ways to influence such reactions.
For example, there are cells that are called natural killers (killers). These cells are the first barrier against cancer. If a cancer cell appears in the body, natural killers destroy it. If this system works well, then the body is protected. If not, then the barrier is destroyed.
Under stress, the activity of natural killer cells decreases 2.5 times, which is very sharp. There are methods that restore this activity, these methods, which we have shown. It can be both medicinal substances and a certain electrical effect.
In addition, the Department of General Pathology and Pathological Physiology of the Institute of Experimental Medicine is actively engaged in the study of antimicrobial peptides. Peptides are molecules that are produced in the body and protect us from the effects of bacteria, viruses and the development of tumors, destroying them. If this system does not work, the person dies. Thanks to the work of the department employees, more than 10 new antimicrobial peptides have been discovered and their properties have been studied in detail (Prof. V. N. Kokryakov, Doctor of Medical Sciences OV Shamova, etc.).
Today it is possible to synthesize such peptides and their analogs. We are trying to create drugs that will actively work when introduced into the body. These are antibiotics of a fundamentally new type, highly effective, not addictive or allergic. This path has its own difficulties, I hope they are surmountable.
Was it difficult to introduce this discipline into educational programs?
- It has not yet been introduced seriously. At the university I give lectures, but so far this is all new. In some textbooks neuroimmunophysiology is only mentioned, but there is no large section yet. And this is my oversight. Recently I was thinking that I need a tutorial on this topic. I'll do it.
Do you think there are still many discoveries about the human body ahead?
Sure. This topic is incredibly interesting. There are things we don't know about. But we know that we do not know about them. And there are things that we don't even know about, that we don't know them. And this is a very long way. There is nothing more complicated in the world than the human body. How did it come about?
Therefore, discoveries are still ahead.
- Let's hope that soon we will get closer to more knowledge
- Much is already known on this topic. In fact, this is already a scientific discipline on which articles are published in specialized international journals. There are two large international societies of which I have been vice president. But I must say that all societies were born here. In 1978, we organized the first International Forum on Immunophysiology. I invited all the scientists who worked abroad. They all met at the forum, although before that they did not know each other. And, in fact, this was the beginning of the organization of international societies and journals on immunophysiology.
By the way, when I was vice-president of the International Society for Neuroimmunomodulation, our “beloved enemy”, who brought us up tough, wrote me letters asking for help in organizing his participation in scientific forums, I always helped.
In one of the articles that I read, the author jokingly wrote that if you want to be healthy, you need to fall in love. Is there some truth in this joke?
- Of course have! Positive emotions have a positive effect on the immune system. Unless, of course, this is tragic love.
Knowing about the interaction of the nervous and immune systems, as a specialist, what will you advise people to be healthy?
- I don’t know how to give such advice, well, I don’t know how … Life is delicious!
Interviewed by Anastasia Penzina Photo & Video Nikolay Malakhin
