This year marks 20 years since the creation of a special laboratory in Tomsk, which was engaged in the study of unusual phenomena - UFOs, poltergeists and other "devilry".
Its leader - Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences, Professor of the Tomsk Polytechnic University Vladimir Salnikov - personally traveled to the areas of UFO "landing" and to places where the poltergeist freaked out. He tells the correspondent Konstantin Antonov about the scientific discoveries he had made while exploring the world of the unknown.
Izvestia-Nedelya discusses any "devilry" with the head of a special laboratory for the study of unusual phenomena
-Vladimir Nikolaevich, Soviet materialistic science was initially skeptical about anomalous phenomena. I wonder how you were allowed to study all this "devilry"?
- In 1986, by the decision of the Ministry of Higher Education, a laboratory of natural and technogenic electromagnetic systems was created at our institute - this is how you can briefly translate a long scientific name. The fact is that we were one of the first in the USSR to undertake a serious study of environmental problems of interaction between the environment and humans. Of course, in my work I often had to deal with phenomena that defy logical explanation.
And how, excuse me, are geologists connected with UFOs?
- It was in the late 80s - early 90s - glasnost, freedom of speech. And then all of a sudden everyone started talking about unusual phenomena, thousands of contactees, ufologists appeared, newspapers with stories about ghosts and UFOs began to be published in mass circulation. Hundreds of "evidence" of the landing of the plates, their sites and secret spaceports have appeared. "Heavenly" affairs were instructed to investigate specialists on the Earth - geologists and geophysicists. Poltergeist phenomena are a complex scientific problem of nature and society. As in many Soviet scientific institutions, we worked on open and closed topics.
Humanoid Spaceport - Forge
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- One of your business trips was to Tallinn, to the place of the "UFO landing" that seemed to have happened 60 million years ago. Then they wrote a lot about this, deciding that humanity has finally received irrefutable evidence that the Earth is visited by extraterrestrial beings. On television, "pieces" of the spacecraft were shown, which were impossible to make under terrestrial conditions. What really happened there?
- Yes, this story puzzled at the time the military, who turned to us for help. And its essence is as follows. The Mitt family from Estonia discovered a layer underground. It happened when the owner on the outskirts of Tallinn decided to dig a well. I took off the top layer and came across something hard that I could not pick with a shovel. With a jackhammer, he nevertheless punched through the hard rock, pieces of which he threw to the surface, water started flowing, the well was flooded … And at first they forgot about it.
But they remembered when the boom with flying saucers began. The owner of the well took a piece of the "mysterious" rock and went to one of the local institutes. There they examined him and said: it is impossible to make such an alloy under terrestrial conditions, it has an extraterrestrial origin. This is where it all started.
The place where the metal was found was declared an extraterrestrial cosmodrome. Then the owner brought the scientists another sample of the same alloy, in which there were inclusions of nickel, titanium of various configurations, and presented another plate similar to pyrite. Six or seven institutes worked on these samples. In the end, I had these research materials.
Then this shiny piece of metal was shown even in one of the TV programs. Excavations were carried out at the site of the landing of the flying saucer, pieces of metal were pulled apart, made bracelets and jewelry from it. And then they began to tell that those who put them on themselves became blind, sick … But what did you find?
- First I must say that it was very difficult to get there. It was the end of the 80s. The Popular Front declared the "crash site" of the flying saucer to be a cult zone, which served as a relay of cosmic energy to the country for its liberation. In short, it all looked like a madhouse. I had to negotiate with familiar ufologists.
When we arrived there, with the help of seismologists, they found a foundation pit - they had dug everything up before us, but found nothing. They explained that the plate "went under the house." The researchers filmed under the foundations of the house, but the UFO was not found. The hostess said that after digging the pit, poltergeist phenomena began to occur (invisible entities walked, knocked).
We "enlightened" the house and the ground under it with special equipment - we found nothing. Then they began to study the fragments of a flying saucer. It turned out to be ordinary pyrite. It formed in sandy ground. Iron and other metals fall into the lower horizons of sand dunes and are there without air access, forming hard shiny crystals - pyrite. This layer stretched among the dunes. Then it turned out that earlier in these places they melted metal, and part of the periphery of the furnace contained iron-silicon compounds (silicides) …
The green man turned out to be a neighbor
- You investigated the so-called Krapivinsky phenomenon, when a giant pit in the shape of a glass suddenly formed on the arable field of one of the state farms in the Kemerovo region. It was in 1993, I had to go there and see this miraculous phenomenon. It was believed that this is the mine from where the humanoid rocket was launched …
- We did not find humanoids there, but we managed to talk to the tractor driver who came across this pit. It all happened on the May holidays. He came to harrow a field that he had just plowed yesterday, and almost collapsed. I called the villagers. They cut down a birch and tried to put it there in order to measure it. It turned out that the hole was three meters in diameter and six meters deep. There is no earth around, and its shape is strange: it really resembles a glass.
"Specialists" immediately came in large numbers, and massive "contacts with the cosmic mind" began. We have been building hypotheses and calculations for a long time. The case turned out to be more complicated than the "Tallinn dish", but also understandable.
Within a radius of 800-1000 km from the Semipalatinsk test site - and the field was nearby - there is such a phenomenon as the unloading of the lithosphere, accompanied by excavation. Explosions of enormous force affect the lithosphere. An electromagnetic pulse passes from them, cavities are formed inside the Earth, which are crushed with tremendous force. Mechanical stress occurs … This case is not unique. We described a couple more of the same that occurred in the Tomsk region.
Maybe these are really earthly things. But what about the "devilry"? For example, in Tomsk someone or something prevented an elderly couple from living for many months. Water constantly appeared in the kitchen. And there are different inscriptions on the wall. And then the house burned down altogether …
- We dealt with this case for half a month. They brought various equipment there. They took readings regularly. The old men did paint the kitchen floor, and after a while water appeared. The kitchen was dried up, the next morning there was water again. When ufologists and contactees reached out to them, water began to appear every day. At that time, the All-Russian conference of ufologists was still held in Tomsk, so the delegates were taken there as on an excursion.
We were also interested in this case. The house is located in a complex geopathogenic zone, where various manifestations of energy are possible. We thought we were going to face something unusual.
So the poltergeist still exists?
- Of course, there is, but sometimes in the face of a neighbor's boy, who really liked to make fun of that. So many people came in large numbers! It was he who poured some water. And he also did graffiti on the walls. The old people could not keep track of him …
There are no miracles in the world?
- Well, is the white light so boring that even the most unusual phenomena have only a prosaic explanation? But what about, for example, contactees who "communicate" with higher intelligence?
- I had to communicate with a lot of such contactees. Believe me, I have not yet met a single one who would "lie the truth." If you push the contactee against the wall with arguments and proofs, offer him a scientific experiment, he immediately says: the higher reason has forbidden me to share secrets with earthlings. In my opinion, only two percent of all unexplained facts are inexplicable.
So, extraterrestrial civilizations, parallel worlds, other forms of life are all legends and fairy tales?
- I will not disappoint. Nobody has seen "black holes", but dissertations have been written on them. So far, no one has rejected the hypothesis of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations. Probably, not everything that is reflected by human consciousness is a subject for the work of psychiatrists.