In an interview, the popular writer spoke for the first time about his own experience of going beyond consciousness, about Marilyn Monroe, about Greta Thunberg and why it is better not to talk to the dead.
The favorite of our public, science fiction writer Bernard Werber, came to Moscow for four days. The writer presents a new novel "Pandora's Box", in which he continues to explore the topic of reincarnation that interests him so much. We will not retell once again the stories that once Verber was a science journalist, then he retrained as a writer; or that he left his kitchen to ants to observe insect life without going out into the forest. These facts have long been known, but in an interview with a Kpisatel correspondent he unexpectedly told something special, something that he did not really advertise in previous speeches.
The conversation turned out to be on the verge of paranormality.
Bernard, is it true that your new novel "Pandora's Box" about the transmigration of souls appeared thanks to a meeting with a Moscow medium?
- This is the third novel about the transmigration of souls and therefore I cannot say that this particular book was born after meeting with a Moscow witch. My life was full of other mediums, these citizens often come to my meetings … But the medium from Russia is more memorable. Your mediums are not like ours.
What is the difference?
- It's not about the external component. For example, until you start speaking, you never look like Russian. But if I met you, I would still understand that you are Russian. Because you emanate characteristic vibrations, a certain frequency of vibration. It's the same with mediums. Your vibrations are different. And the attitude to death is different: more romanticism and tragedy.
"You said that in one of your past lives you were a doctor in St. Petersburg, and in the 19th century, a dancer in Paris." Do you believe it?
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- I am a writer, and I used to be a science journalist; both activities taught me that you cannot be sure of anything until you experience it for yourself. I learned about my past lives during the practice of regressive hypnosis.
Is this what you write about in your book? Does your hero, a historian, end up in the theater of hypnosis and learn about his past lives?
- I described a real technique that actually exists. A regressive hypnosis session looks like this. You close your eyes and plunge into a special state. It seems to be a dream, but at the same time you control yourself, you can speak and you are able to open your eyes at any moment and stop everything. You find yourself in a corridor with many doors, each of which corresponds to your previous life. It is important to articulate the desire for the experience you want to experience. For example, when I first went through this, I said that I want to see the lives where I travel a lot. Then he pushed one of the doors and saw himself. It was like watching a movie. I lived this life: I was in a state of youth, maturity, old age, and then I returned to the corridor again.
Maybe this is a game of imagination?
- No one will answer this question. You can find out for sure whether reincarnation exists or not - you can only when you die. But, interestingly, sometimes after hypnosis it is possible to remember the name of the person seen outside the door. And if you punch this name on the Internet or in the library, it often turns out that it really existed once, although you never knew about it before hypnosis.
In the book, your hero pushes the door with the inscription "111" and the medium explains to him that this is his one hundred and eleventh life. Isn't it too much? Hindus, for example, believe that you can move no more than fifty times
- I guess there are no restrictions. Someone lives the fourth life, someone - the thousandth. What I am almost sure of is that you cannot know the life that will be; you cannot regress and be reborn from a person into a dog or a plant; and also that we will not reincarnate on another planet … Oh, yes: after death we are given the choice of whom to turn to. At least that's what people say.
What people?
- I myself have mastered the technique of regressive hypnosis and have been conducting small performances in France for two years now. A hall of about four hundred people is gathering, and I'm trying to introduce people to this state. About half of them manage to see the corridor. Then people share what they see, tell different interesting things. I do not exclude, however, that they are coming up with it.
Could you put me into this state?
- I often practice this with French journalists. But I'm not sure what would have happened to you. You don’t speak French, and it’s not very good through an interpreter. The voice is important. Although, of course, you can try.
“Gender is determined before birth. If I chose to be a man, then there were reasons for that."
What happens when a person dies but has not yet reincarnated?
- Since I was faced with the inexplicable, I roughly know what happens to a person after death. In general terms, he does not understand that he is dead. The dead think they are alive.
What did you talk to Marilyn Monroe about when you went beyond consciousness?
- With Marilyn? Are you seriously? Yes, I love Monroe, but I never spoke to her.
Why?
- I do not strive to get in touch with the dead, it seems to me that this is useless. Although sometimes the mediums who come to my meetings bring some messages from them, and I always listen.
Messages addressed to you?
- Yes. Usually these are messages from my father or from deceased friends. Most of the time, these are cute messages like this, so I feel grateful. Just the other day I had a meeting with readers in Angoulême, this is in France. A lady came up and said: oh, you know, I have a message for you from Isidore … This lady had no way of knowing the name of my grandfather, I did not shine him anywhere, a rare name.
- Isidor is a rather Russian name
- Well, yes, my ancestors, grandparents were from Galicia, they spoke Polish and Russian.
In an interview with my colleague Daria Zavgorodnyaya, you said that your ancestors were Yakuts. This is a joke?
- No, not a joke. I did a DNA test and found out that I am Italian, Spanish and Yakut, and to a greater extent - Pole.
“I thought I was a Jew
- It goes without saying, but a Polish Jew.
Your theory of transmigration of souls is in conflict with Judaism. Jews do not believe in transmigration
- No, in fact, both Judaism and Christianity also talk about the transmigration of souls, this aspect is firmly forgotten, although its echoes can still be found. For example, in Christianity there is Lazarus, who returns from the world of the dead. And in Judaism there is such a concept "tsimtzum", behind which there is a cycle of rebirth.
- Tzimtzum is more about Kabbalah
The fact is that I am interested in early Judaism, which was formed before the exodus of the Jews from Babylon. In addition, Christ himself said that he did not come to create a new religion, but to remind the laws of our ancestors, to those who have forgotten them. So I'm wondering what was forgotten there. By the way, there is such a topic that Jesus Christ must also undergo reincarnation and be born in the person of the child Emmanuel. Do you know this story? Well google it, very informative.
It's clear with the Jewish part. Have you tried to explore the Yakut part? Maybe shamanism?
- I like shamanism, I write about it in my books and dream of visiting Yakutia to make a report about it. By the way, I have a French friend who works as a shaman in Siberia. Yes, I'm serious. Her name is Karin Sampre, she beats a tambourine, summons spirits, constantly improves her techniques. We talk to her often.
But you practice it is not clear what, are not afraid to get sick with the disease of shamanism? Shamanism researcher Torchinov wrote that after initiation shamans change their sex
[Wild laugh]. I'm not that familiar with materiel. I don't want to change the gender, it seems to me that we choose the gender ourselves before we are born. If I chose to be a man, then there were reasons for that.
Meanwhile, you have already begun to write novels on behalf of a woman …
- Well, yes, I'm a writer after all. It is enough for me to imagine a female character and I change the gender. But I don't see much point in being reborn. And why I chose regressive hypnosis for myself over shamanism is because I retain control over everything. I don't like the idea of losing control and everything that follows.
There is still a practice in the world to transmit ancient knowledge orally, not in writing
Russian readers have such a rhetorical question "what did the author smoke?"
- I understand what you are asking. I don't drink, I don't use anything. And in the theater, during practice, I ask people who have taken medicine, alcohol, drugs, and have problems with psychiatry to leave the hall. I do not recommend plunging into a state of regressive hypnosis for people who have experienced a shock. It is necessary that the mind be calm and pure.
How do you feel about fly agarics?
- Well, I said that I do not take any chemicals that affect the brain. Although now French youth have a new addiction, called ayahuasca. Did not hear? This is a sickening bodyguard from some Peruvian vine. You drink it, you immediately vomit, and then, the effect is like a fly agaric, apparently, although I have not tried it. In France, this swill was banned, and in Spain it is freely sold, so they go there. I don't know how about the effect, but I have heard about good anthelmintic action. Maybe I was just lucky, but I can do without it and without dancing with tambourines too.
And where do you get what you write about? You are a science journalist. How about working with sources?
- My main sources are not books, not the Internet, but my friends, French scientists. The advantage of the writer over the scientist is that the writer does not need to prove everything, although most of what I write is factual.
Does what you just said mean that until now ancient knowledge is transmitted orally, bypassing written sources?
- Yes (thoughtfully). Yes, it is (pause).
Where do you meet with the bearers of such knowledge?
- Yes, anywhere. In the cafe, in the living room … I speak to them as I do to you now. No, you must understand correctly, I did not say that there is such a group of people who for centuries have been transmitting something to their successor's ear. This is not a group, not a sect. Nothing. (In general, I am wary of anything that has to do with ritual. I like spirituality in which there are no hierarchies). It's just that people are experimenting, and what they understood during the experiments is difficult to say in writing. For example, I myself have mastered the practice of hypnosis not from books, but from hand to hand, as they say.
You know, in general, we have touched on such a slippery topic … It's difficult to talk about it. Different people have different life trajectories. That is why there is no truth that is universal for everyone. Everyone has their own awareness and, depending on its level, people comprehend a certain part of the truth. Whether there is reincarnation or not, there is life after death or not - this is not a matter of faith. When you were a child and started swimming, did you believe in swimming? You just went into the water and watched what happened.
About ecology, Greta Thunberg and a new book about Russia
We had such a slightly strange conversation. I suggest you change the subject
- With joy.
In your novels, you very often touch upon various environmental aspects of life. How do you feel about Greta Thunberg?
- Yes, I'm okay with her. A great way to talk about environmental issues with the help of girls like this. Why not.
What about the content?
- The content is not about that at all. What is the point of saying that there is no need to pollute the planet if there will soon be 10 billion of us?
Are you talking about demography?
- Sure! For me, demography is the number one problem. All these billions will want a TV, a car, an iPhone like yours. They will use a lot of water, air, oil. You can't just take it and say: stop eating and stop littering. Therefore, it would be better to decide not to reproduce. Moreover, at the level of the entire planet, for all mankind, and not just for individual countries.
How to implement your idea? Should it be artificial sterilization of a certain category of citizens?
- No, you mean, it's only voluntary and only with the help of education. Therefore, in the third world countries it is necessary to develop the economy, education, medicine. Countries with a good level of education have zero population growth.
- It seems to me that this topic is a French "fix idea". Not so long ago, the French classic Philippe Claudel said exactly the same thing. He also said that there is a lot of space in Russia, so that part of the population could move to us.
- No, but what to do? Not to move to the moon. Of course, I hope for the development of distant planets, but there are no prerequisites for this. Therefore, this is the only way. Otherwise, there will be more and more people, these people need to be fed, therefore, more arable land is needed. More arable land means more forestry. Into the firebox of the forest means we breathe bad air and the end of the whole ecology. So fewer happy children are better than many unhappy ones. But no Greta will tell you that.
Let's move the topic again. Bernard, you are very much loved in Russia. And you have repeatedly promised your fans to write a new novel about our country. Why did you cheat and your new novel "Pandora's Box" is not about Russia
- I have not deceived. I promised and I will continue to promise. I didn’t say when I’ll write.
Is it true that you write novels, knowing in advance how they will end?
- Absolute truth. Before starting the big work, I first make a ten-page mini-novel, where I outline the entire canvas. I know what the end will be, the climax and the moment when the rabbit looks out of the hat.
What is the joy of writing if it does not bring discoveries?
- You are not right. Moving through the finished structure, I work with new sources and learn what I did not know before. This knowledge cannot influence the end of the novel, but it brings many discoveries along the way. I would compare it to a person's life: you know you will die, but you can have a good time on the way from point A to point B.
REFERENCE
Bernard Verber (born September 18, 1961, Toulouse, France) is a science fiction writer, former science journalist, screenwriter. One of the most famous contemporary French authors. The creator of the cult trilogies "Ants", "We, the Gods", the dilogy "Thanatonauts" and several dozen other works, both combined into cycles and existing outside the cycles. The peculiarity of Werber's books is a kind of mixture of fantasy and philosophy.
EVGENIYA KOROBKOVA