No, I will not pester the version that mythologists retell us from century to century. You can read this in any encyclopedia. I will look at the topic from a different angle, I hope, more correct.
In the Greek tradition, many wicked people fell into Tartarus after their death: Sisyphus, Ixion, Tantalus, each of whom received his own perverse punishment for a crime during his lifetime. But the very first characters exiled to Tartarus are titans. It is in their plot that Tartarus appears, looking like something cosmological. Late sinners get there by inertia, to the extent that in the wonderful dialogue "Gorgias" Plato, through the lips of Socrates, spoke:
“… Who lived unjustly and ungodly, so that he would go to the place of punishment and retribution, to the dungeon, which is called Tartarus… this is a scoundrel; and Radamant sends him to Tartarus, marking whether this deceased seems to be healed or hopeless to him. Arriving in Tartarus, the guilty endures what he deserves"
There is nothing figurative here, just a philosopher using a mythical term, without a symbol, which we so need to understand the word; but he still catches one distant thought, comparing Tartarus with the Dungeon.
Of course, Tartarus had some kind of real prototype. I have one thought on this score, in which I am not entirely sure, but I can share it.
To begin with, let's recall the main thesis of any encyclopedia: Tartarus is an underground abyss. Now we read the main sources of these theses, that is, those who introduced the term "Tartarus" into the European lexicon: Hesiod and Homer, whose testimonies coincide almost one-to-one.
Hesiod:
“And the Titans were sent by the brothers
Into the bowels of the wide-road land and they were imposed a
Heavy bond, defeating the arrogant with the power of hands.
They were thrown into the underground as deep as far to the sky, For the gloomy Tartarus is so far from us:
If, taking a copper anvil, throw it from the sky, In nine days and nights it would fly to the earth;
If, taking a copper anvil, to throw it from the ground, In nine days and nights, a weight would fly to Tartarus.
Tartare is surrounded by a copper fence. In three rows, an
impenetrable night surrounds him, and on top of the
roots of the earth lie the bitter-salted sea.
There, under the gloomy darkness of the underground, the gods of the Titans
were hidden by the decision of the lord of the immortals and mortals
In a gloomy and musty place, at the edge of the immense earth.
There is no way out for them - Posidaon blocked him with a
copper door; the wall runs around the whole place"
(Theogony. 717-733. Translation by V. V. Veresaev)
Promotional video:
Homer:
“Or I will take him and throw me into the gloomy Tartarus, Into a distant abyss, where the deepest abyss is under the ground:
Where is the copper platform and the iron gates. Tartarus, As far from hell as the bright sky from the valley!"
(Iliad. 8: 13-16. Translation by N. I. Gnedich)
Hesiod, of course, expanded the description of Tartarus, in Homer everything is more laconic, as befits a true poet (which does not detract from the merits of Hesiod's texts). Therefore, I will turn precisely to the Homeric text in an attempt to understand whether the main encyclopedic thesis corresponds to what is written in its source. If among the readers there are connoisseurs of Greek, welcome to the discussion, because I myself am never a professional translator. And yet, unfortunately, I will not be able to deeply analyze every word in a line, since this is too much work, in my case, many weeks, because the poets were able to wrap a word very well and multifacetedly. So Homer, Iliad, canto 8, lines 13-16:
μιν ἑλὼν ῥίψω ἤ ἐς Τάρταρον ἠερόεντα
τῆλε μάλ, ἧχι βάθιστον ὑπὸ χθονός ἐστι βέρεθρον, ἔνθα σιδήρειαί τε πύλαι καὶ χάλκεος οὐδός, τόσσον ἔνερθ Ἀΐδεω ὅσον οὐρανός ἐστ ἀπὸ γαίης
What immediately caught my eye was the constant imposition of the Russian translation on us of the opinion that "Tartarus is a deep abyss" is not a problem, but it is repeated even where Homer does not. Look here: “into the gloomy Tartarus, into the distant abyss” - “ἐς Τάρταρον ἠερόεντα τῆλε μάλ᾽”. For some reason, we have separated “τῆλε μ᾽λ᾽” from the main sentence, making the definition “a distant abyss”, although it is clear that this is part of a holistic construction “ἠερόεντα τῆλε μάλ᾽”, where:
μάλ᾽ is an amplifying word like "very, extremely" - it increases the meaning of the adjacent word, and next to the appropriate one is only "τῆλε".
τῆλε is a popular “tele” in which etymologists persistently refuse to see our “distance”, although it is translated as “distant”. At the same time, "τέλος" is "end, result, border, higher power, completion, accomplishment, completeness, decision, fate, court, tax collection, achievement, prize in the race, finish", and the English "till" means "until until "… That is, we mean a certain remote limit, which is once reached, thereby causing the completion (perfection) of the process. The path to a distant point is a segment, length, length, length, continuation.
ἠερόεντα is, perhaps, the main epithet of Tartrar, repeated everywhere. And in an amicable way, the article should have been called “Τάρταρά ἠερόεντα” just like that, paying tribute to the main word. The feeling that for poets to indicate “ἠερόεντα” next to Tartarus is a matter of honor, and our translators are happy to interpret it as “gloomy”, although if you think about it, the root of the word lies “ερ”, that is, “air”, that is, “air ", so the answer to the word must be sought in" atmospheric ", I suppose, epithets:" cloudy, cloudy, foggy."
Then “ἠερόεντα τῆλε μάλ᾽” is “very long (extended, distant) fogs (clouds, clouds)”, and not “distant abyss”. And all this stands next to "Τάρταρον", being its epithet - "To long-cloudy Tartarus" or "to Tartarus with very distant clouds", something like that, well, or "very long-cloudy")), always dark from everywhere gathering clouds … It sounds awful, I understand, but I'm not Homer))
And one more thing, the word "ἠερόεντα" is very similar to ἤειρον, which has many forms in different dialects (the dictionary gives "ἀείρω", "αἴρω", "ἦρα", "ἤειρα", "ἄειρα", etc.). It is to raise, erect, build, seize, abduct, take away, take away, remove, deny, rise, stand firmly, transfer, acquire, receive, take (smth.) Upon oneself, undertake, restore, present, serve, send, enlarge, expand. I do not compare these words by consonance more, but by meaning, because clouds, clouds, fogs are all atmospheric structures that darken the sky, steal light, absorb, etc. And if these words are really comparable, then the main epithet of Tartrar deepens significantly: his "multi-twilight" becomes something solid, strong, visible,absorbing. And our Tartarus becomes something "obscuring" its darkness.
Further: "ἧχι βάθιστον ὑπὸ χθονός ἐστι βέρεθρον" - in the Russian translation "where is the deepest abyss under the ground", I have no particular complaints, but I will quote each word separately so that the details are clear:
"Βάθιστον" is depth, but it is a very powerful word in Greek, for it means more than just depth. See for yourself: βᾰθύς - deep, surrounded by a high fence, deeply jutting, forming a deep bay, dense, dense, rich, deep, strong, indestructible, late, deaf, conscious, serious. Such epithets as βαθύκληρος - rich in land, multi-land, βαθυγνώμων - discerning, βαθύδοξος - covered with great glory; and indicative in terms of understanding the word "βαθύγειος", that is, "with a thick layer of soil", which means "fertile."
Thus, the essence of "depth" is revealed here - it is both "deep" and "high" and "thick", that is, a certain abundance: if the soil, then fertile, if the thought, then soulful, if the wall, then high.
The popular "hypo" - "πὸ" - traditionally "under, from under, behind", but here we must remember one more meaning of this "under" - "subordination or dependence (to be under someone), controllability, under the accompaniment"
The word "Earth" is "χθονός". The dictionaries say that it is "soil, surface of the earth", as well as "world, country", which is reflected in "χθόνιος" - "native, domestic, local; ground, land; underground, inside the earth, coming out of the earth "; It seemed to me appropriate to compare all this with the word “χιτών” (clothing worn on a naked body) and modern English “hide” (to hide, to hide), since the Soil and the Surface of the Earth are the same shell as clothing that hides the deep layers. When it comes to "Chthonos", then all meanings indicate some kind of internal component, an attachment to the site. And among poets in their texts, Gaia-land and Chthonos-land are often side by side, that is, they are not the same concepts.
"Βέρεθρον" is "pit, abyss, bay", at least that is the dictionary meaning; reminded me of both the "shore" and the "beret" - "birretum" - a hat or a hood that has a root "take", apparently, that's why I compared it with a "pit, a bay" - these are all the recesses into which can fit something (head or water, for example).
As a result, our sentence "ἧχι βάθιστον ὑπὸ χθονός ἐστι βέρεθρον" can be translated as follows: "where is the thickness under the ground (ἐστι, English" is ") a hole" or "where deep behind the ground there is an abyss", the meaning is that this " the depth of the earth”- this is the“abyss”. If we recall the geocentric model of antiquity (the shield of Achilles), it becomes clear where there is an abyss under the earth's thickness:
'Achilles' shield', Carlo Vincenti, 1959.
Further, the completely incomprehensible "ἔνθα σιδήρειαί τε πύλαι καὶ χάλκεος οὐδός" - "Where is the copper platform and the iron gates", but here we see the construction "Τε … καὶ", that is, "and … and" or "both this and this." Moreover, it stands so strangely in the text that it divides the sentence outside the box: "There are iron gates, and a copper passage", okay, iron gates, but then the copper passage turns out to be iron. So is it copper or iron? One gets the feeling that "χάλκεος οὐδός" is some kind of merged dictionary construction, and not something literal. Unfortunately, there is little I can do to help, but still I will throw a couple of thoughts: 1 - remember the shamanic ideas about "passages" to the Higher and Lower worlds through earthly holes and heavenly stars, the main of which is polar. 2 - Σιδήρειαί - iron, but the Latin word "sidereal (sidereus)" is also known,that is, referring to the stars (sīdus). The situation is reminiscent of the similarity between the Polish word "hvezda" (star) and the common Slavic "nail" - also symbolically iron.
Here's an interesting remark. These gates with a passage (translated by Gnedich as "pomstom") are located "there", that is (see the previous lines) "where the earth's thickness is the abyss."
And the last line: "τόσσον ἔνερθ᾽ Ἀΐδεω ὅσον οὐρανός ἐστ᾽ ἀπὸ γαίης" - I will immediately translate "as below Hades, as Heaven is from Earth." There is a clarification that not just "Far away", but "ἔνερθ᾽" - below, as in the words "nether, niþera, bowels, interior", again we represent the Earth-disk. Here, however, there is another question, what is "Hades, Hell" - I did not understand, I will not say. And here the earth is Gaia, not Chthonos, and the legend of Uranus (οὐρανός) also features the personification of Gaia (γαίης): Gaia gave birth to Uranus to “cover her everywhere,” Gaia, according to Hesiod, is “the abode of all”, and Uranus - "the abode of the immortals." Gaia and Uranus are in constant contact, which is why Gaia gives birth to the first elements. Immediately compares "As Uranus is from Gaia", so below (inside?) Aida is this Iron door. In the Translation of Gnedich it is said that it is “Tartarus so far from Hades”, and not “an iron door”. Still, the context leads to a description of this mysterious passage, which is very important for the etymology of the word "Tartarus".
In total, we get lines saying that they will throw the villains into the multi-cloudy, long-covering Tartarus, where deep behind the earth there is an abyss, in which there is an iron door with a passage, located as below Hell as Heaven from Earth. Thus, the entire quatrain is concentrated precisely on the Passage., and Tartarus appears to be something “erected” and “hiding.” And then the “gate” is the gate of Tartarus, and the gate is usually located in a wall or ceiling.
And one more quatrain in the Iliad, where Tartarus is mentioned:
“Even if you reached the very last limits
Lands and seas, where they sit in a harsh prison
Cronus and Iapetus, nor the rays that Helios pours to us, Not enjoying, nor by the wind. Around them deep Tartar"
(478-481, translated by V. V. Veresaev)
“Even if in anger you reached the final limits
Lands and seas, where Iapetus and Cronus are imprisoned,
Sitting, neither by the wind nor by the light of the rising sun
They cannot enjoy forever; all around them is deep Tartar!"
(translation by Gnedich)
χωομένης, οὐδ᾽ εἴ κε τὰ νείατα πείραθ᾽ ἵκηαι
γαίης καὶ πόντοιο, ἵν᾽ Ἰάπετός τε Κρόνος τε
ἥμενοι οὔτ᾽ αὐγῇς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο
τέρποντ᾽ οὔτ᾽ ἀνέμοισι, βαθὺς δέ τε Τάρταρος ἀμφίς"
Here I will be as brief as possible:
πείραθ '- to pierce, attempt, test, end - figuratively it can be represented as "the very tip" or "a little bit" (a prick - a point - just a touch, a test, as opposed to a full cut)
νείατα - ultimate, extreme, but νείας - young (new), νείαιρα - lower; like small children - small stature, that is, "extreme" here is something like "initial"
γαίης καὶ πόντοιο - earth and sky. Thus, "νείατα πείραθ᾽ ἵκηαι γαίης καὶ πόντοιο" is "the starting point where the sky and the sea meet", that is, we are talking about the horizon, and not about some kind of "last limit".
Further, in my humble opinion, the line is completely incorrectly translated: "ἵν᾽ Ἰάπετός τε Κρόνος τε ἥμενοι οὔτ᾽ αὐγῇς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο". I drew attention to the conjunction "and … and" (both … and) (τε … τε), which gives an interesting picture: "where Iapetus and Kronos, and ἥμενοι οὔτ᾽ αὐγῇς Hyperion Helios", and not as in our translation "where Iapetus and Cronus "(only two), that is, the construction" ἥμενοι οὔτ᾽ αὐγῇς "refers to the" high-rising sun "(Hyperion Helios), and not to Cronus and Iapetus, that is, something like" abiding (located, sitting, located) without light Hyperion Helios ". From a geocentric position, the Sun, leaving the horizon, loses its glow.
Then, we have the sentence “Where is Iapetus and Kronos and the non-shining sun τέρποντ᾽ οὔτ᾽ ἀνέμοισι -“do not tolerate the wind (breath, spirit, like the Latin animus), that is, they are in a vacuum. Dark space!
And the last - βαθὺς δέ τε Τάρταρος ἀμφίς - deep (deaf, thick, strong) also Tartarus around. Again, Tartarus, as in the first quatrain, appears to be something covering, obscuring; is located AROUND the windless space, in which a dim star, Cronus and Iapetus, and all this is on the horizon.
As a result, we get a picture of the Cosmos, possibly just its dark non-stellar part (an interesting version of which can be found in the article "Egg Cosmology"). That is why Tartarus looks like something "twilight, covering itself, embracing in a circle", that is, conventionally - the Wall (in Hesiod's verses, this is "χάλκεον ἕρκος" - "iron fence, fence", also "yard, lasso, fenced off place, protective shaft ", In combination with" ἐλήλαται "-" to hijack, expel, thrust, lead, torment, direct, erect, forge, induce, conquer, drive, invade ", that is, different meanings of" Drive "in every sense, here it is rather" oppress”, because there is an obvious opposition to freedom - coercion, restraint, control), the symbol of which made Tartarus a dungeon, and also reflected in a rather interesting way in the etymology of this word, which I will talk about in another topic. By the way,the moment with an incomprehensible door in this wall will also be clear there, again symbolically, and not concretely. Here, the Wall acts more as an external (deep) limit, but its symbolism, like the non-Greek origin of the word "Tartarus", reflected in mythology its other side - a prison, which gave a unique phenomenon in mythology - a place where sinners fall for eternal punishment … Indeed, in the myths of various peoples, there is no Hell, as the abode of the punishment of the wicked, the afterlife - it is one for all. Only the most outstanding heroes could go to Valhalla or Avalon or the Isles of the Blessed, but everyone else, good or bad, went to one place. And then Tartarus appeared and changed philosophy, right up to the creation of the Christian Hell. And all because of its main symbol - the Wall.again symbolically, not specifically. Here, the Wall acts more as an external (deep) limit, but its symbolism, like the non-Greek origin of the word "Tartarus", reflected in mythology its other side - a prison, which gave a unique phenomenon in mythology - a place where sinners fall for eternal punishment … Indeed, in the myths of various peoples, there is no Hell, as the abode of the punishment of the wicked, the afterlife - it is one for all. Only the most outstanding heroes could go to Valhalla or Avalon or the Isles of the Blessed, but everyone else, good or bad, went to one place. And then Tartarus appeared and changed philosophy, right up to the creation of the Christian Hell. And all because of its main symbol - the Wall.again symbolically, not specifically. Here, the Wall acts more as an external (deep) limit, but its symbolism, like the non-Greek origin of the word "Tartarus", reflected in mythology its other side - a prison, which gave a unique phenomenon in mythology - a place where sinners fall for eternal punishment … Indeed, in the myths of various peoples there is no Hell, as the abode of the punishment of the wicked, the afterlife - it is one for everyone. Only the most outstanding heroes could go to Valhalla or Avalon or the Isles of the Blessed, but everyone else, good or bad, went to one place. And then Tartarus appeared and changed philosophy, right up to the creation of the Christian Hell. And all because of its main symbol - the Wall.as well as the non-Greek origin, the word "Tartarus" reflected in mythology its other side - prison, which gave a unique phenomenon in mythology - a place where sinners fall for eternal punishment. Indeed, in the myths of various peoples there is no Hell, as the abode of the punishment of the wicked, the afterlife - it is one for everyone. Only the most outstanding heroes could go to Valhalla or Avalon or the Isles of the Blessed, but everyone else, good or bad, went to one place. And then Tartarus appeared and changed philosophy, right up to the creation of the Christian Hell. And all because of its main symbol - the Wall.as well as the non-Greek origin, the word "Tartarus" reflected in mythology its other side - prison, which gave a unique phenomenon in mythology - a place where sinners fall for eternal punishment. Indeed, in the myths of various peoples, there is no Hell, as the abode of the punishment of the wicked, the afterlife - it is one for all. Only the most outstanding heroes could go to Valhalla or Avalon or the Isles of the Blessed, but everyone else, good or bad, went to one place. And then Tartarus appeared and changed philosophy, right up to the creation of the Christian Hell. And all because of its main symbol - the Wall. Only the most outstanding heroes could go to Valhalla or Avalon or the Isles of the Blessed, but everyone else, good or bad, went to one place. And then Tartarus appeared and changed philosophy, right up to the creation of the Christian Hell. And all because of its main symbol - the Wall. Only the most outstanding heroes could go to Valhalla or Avalon or the Isles of the Blessed, but everyone else, good or bad, went to one place. And then Tartarus appeared and changed philosophy, right up to the creation of the Christian Hell. And all because of its main symbol - the Wall.
And they place Tartarus by mistake “underground”, again due to its location BEYOND the earth's disk, or, in normal language, beyond the horizon (visually, beyond the horizon is always “under” it). It is there that the first "titans" live, whom, interestingly, according to myths, the Earth gave birth, which gives rise to the question, do we all know about our Earth, about its early years of life? After all, if we recall Hesiod, then it was the Earth that gave birth to the "gray iron sickle", which became the symbol of Crohn (perhaps, we are talking about the Moon), through which the comet-Aphrodite separated from Uranus. And again the same question - where did the ancient poets get all this information from? Probably in the 19th century they came up with))
Author: peremyshlin