Academician Natalya Bekhtereva About Her Acquaintance With Vanga And Kashpirovsky - Alternative View

Academician Natalya Bekhtereva About Her Acquaintance With Vanga And Kashpirovsky - Alternative View
Academician Natalya Bekhtereva About Her Acquaintance With Vanga And Kashpirovsky - Alternative View

Video: Academician Natalya Bekhtereva About Her Acquaintance With Vanga And Kashpirovsky - Alternative View

Video: Academician Natalya Bekhtereva About Her Acquaintance With Vanga And Kashpirovsky - Alternative View
Video: Наталья Бехтерева, нейрофизиолог, академик РАН 2024, May
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Natalya Petrovna Bekhtereva (1924-2008) - Soviet and Russian neurophysiologist. Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences (USSR Academy of Sciences until 1991) and RAMS (USSR Academy of Medical Sciences until 1992). Since 1990, scientific director of the "Brain" Center of the USSR Academy of Sciences, and since 1992 - the Human Brain Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences (St. Petersburg). Doctor of Medical Sciences, Professor. The granddaughter of V. M. Bekhterev. Laureate of the USSR State Prize in the field of science. Chevalier of the Order of Lenin. Below is an excerpt from her book: The Magic of the Brain and the Labyrinths of Life. - SPb.: Notabene, 1999.

All my long life I have studied the living human brain. And, like everyone else, including people of other specialties, she inevitably came across "strange" phenomena. And there are many things - fake, charlatanism; much only seems strange, it can be explained already now, and thus much "supernatural" (strange) becomes natural. But not all. "There are many things in the world, friend Horatio …" And about many things, which seem to be and which, as it were, not, that almost everyone knows, but either pass over in silence or fiercely criticize, hanging labels, I will also tell here. Because I don’t want to pretend it’s not there. Because I hope the time will come - and the "strange" phenomena will be more understandable, which, by the way, will cut off the road for charlatans of all stripes. Because only by taking them into account - and, of course, not only what I write about, but also much that I don't write about,- it will be possible to imagine a more complete picture of how a person thinks. And, perhaps, more fully - what a person is.

After the creation of the intensive care service, the semi-popular literature is more and more filled with reports of something (soul?) Leaving the body - with a return to it, naturally, in case of revival. This is described by different authors and is not observed in all patients. Why? Well-known neurosurgeon A. after two clinical deaths to the question: what is there? - answered: there is a black pit … Is it only a "reanimation" phenomenon? Or the exit of the soul from the body can be observed and not near death? Also incredible are the reports of individuals' contacts with those (or the souls of those) who have passed away …

In a word, "Through the Looking Glass". Our Church opposed the physically harmful influences at a distance, the American Orthodox Church opposed the description of reanimation phenomena. However, in a conversation with Vladyka John, Metropolitan of St. Petersburg and Ladoga, completely different accents sounded. We talked about a device that seemed to have arrived in St. Petersburg, which is very necessary for us to diagnose patients with brain diseases, for us - an auxiliary to a positron emission tomograph. We did not receive the device, Vladyka had his own plans for it, but he was interested in our thoughts about a breakthrough into very difficult to understand areas of science. In accordance with the formulas accepted in the Church, Vladyka unexpectedly said to me: "I bless you for this research." As I was later explained, this is about the same as an order to action in secular life. Not just an endorsement of scientific interest in "strange" phenomena, but an order to study them.

At first everything seemed to be exceptions: the prophecies of the Bulgarian Vanga; communication with those who no longer exist, the American Andersen; Kashpirovsky's influence on the audience and individuals. We have heard from childhood about prophets and clairvoyants. But these were some special people who had lived for a long time, but sometimes it seemed: did they live? And was it so? We know how the history of nations, written by an "oriented" person, and not by an indifferent monk-chronicler, lies. Why not lie to personal stories? Why not invent heroes, if they are needed - well, you never know why?

What is the situation with "strange" phenomena now, on the border of the third millennium? Let's leave the reasoning for now, let's see the facts. It was like a real prophetess. She lived in Bulgaria, near the town of Petrich, in a village - or rather, she received visitors in the village, and lived in Petrich itself - Evangelina, aunt Vanga, to whom they came to find out what was with the missing cow, what was with the missing person, whether the patient would live - but you never know what a person might want to know.

I came to Bulgaria when we were all inspired by our revolution from above, our perestroika, and did not recognize Bulgaria after almost a thirty-year break. Everything around us is the same as at that time - empty counters, special closed shops for the party and state elite and guests of honor. And what a misery there too! (We have now forgotten that at the end of Brezhnev's reign, this is how we lived, saving ourselves with low prices for essential products and acquaintance with speculators.) My scientific lectures in Bulgaria were held behind closed doors: God forbid, I will share our enthusiasm (time of disappointment and negativism was still to come). We became a threat to the established paradise of the elite, and the elite felt it well. All this - in our then euphoria - did not really alarm me. To Vanga! To Vanga !!!

But first, all the same, I had to stop by for a cup of coffee to the secretary of the city committee Petrich - the rules of the game extended to "miracles", or, as we accepted earlier, "strange" phenomena. True, it was about beautiful Bulgaria, about its southern edges (of course, the most beautiful ones), and about the fact that I need to hurry. By the way, only the transition to summer time, which was not taken into account in our trip and was not taken into account by Vanga, really helped not to be late for Vanga. She, as it turned out later, always very accurately (blind!) Knew what time it was, but did not recognize the transitions to either summer or winter time. Or, judging by the reality that I met when visiting Vanga, she always lived by that time, which we call winter.

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Before this trip, I saw a film about Vanga at the Sofia Documentary Film Studio. He is certainly impressive, but he is not even comparable to a short personal meeting. After all, it is no secret that no matter what miracles we see in a recording made not by us, we amend what we see on the screen, just as any other viewer will amend if we show “miracles” on film.

The driver left the car about three hundred meters from Vanga's house, on a dusty country road, along which we went further. There were also several other cars of visitors who had arrived earlier than us. In other words, the sounds of a stopped car that arrived and not close to Vanga's house, not only in general, but even on that day, could not be considered something specially attracting attention. And we walked along a dirt road, soft with dust, and, thus, our footsteps were not heard. And nevertheless, shortly after I approached the fence around the courtyard at Vanga's house and stood behind one of the many eager to meet with Vanga, her shrill voice rang out: “I know that you have arrived, Natalya, go to the fence, do not hide for a man. " Since I did not expect all this, and even God knows not how I understood the Bulgarian-Macedonian speech of Vanga, I realized what had happened,from the third or fourth translation, - people turned to me and, as best they could, explained what it was about, what Wanga said. Vanga was warned about my arrival on this day in advance, she could have been told that I had arrived - so calmly I took this first "oddity". Reception of visitors began at exactly the appointed time, and Vanga immediately sent someone from her relatives to me to say that she did not accept me among the first, since she needed to "enter a certain state, warm up."and Vanga immediately sent someone from her family to me to say that she does not accept me among the first, since she needs to "enter a certain state, warm up."and Vanga immediately sent someone from her family to me to say that she does not accept me among the first, since she needs to "enter a certain state, warm up."

Before meeting Wanga, I really wanted to be silent and concentrate. But, by chance or not, my environment, the doctors who came with me, did everything to make this impossible. And I was finishing up the answer to some next question when I was called to Vanga. Tiny village canopy - well, something about two and a half meters. There is a table by the window. Opposite the entrance, on a chair at this table, sits Vanga, "Aunt Vanga", who calls everyone in "you" and who must also be called "you". She is blind, her face is twisted, but as you look at her, her face seems more and more attractive, pure and sweet, although at first she was not at all pleased with me. I did not have a traditional lump of sugar, which I had to keep with me for a day before coming to her, - according to Vanga, a lump of sugar will absorb information about what was coming in a day,and then Wanga reads it with his fingers. A traditional gift … I gave her a wonderful Pavlovo Posad shawl in a plastic bag. Vanga held out her hand for sugar. "I have no sugar, Aunt Vanga …" She took out a handkerchief from the package: "Oh, you didn't touch it at all" - and began to stroke the plastic bag. “Why did you come? What do you want to know? " “Nothing special,” I replied, “I wanted to meet you. I am researching the properties of the human brain, and I wanted to talk to you myself. " - “For science, then yes. Do you know Mary? Do you know Jacob? Sergey? " - "No, Aunt Wanga, I don't know."you didn't touch him at all,”and began stroking the plastic bag. “Why did you come? What do you want to know? " “Nothing special,” I replied, “I wanted to meet you. I am researching the properties of the human brain, and I wanted to talk to you myself. " - “For science, then yes. Do you know Mary? Do you know Jacob? Sergey? " - "No, Aunt Wanga, I don't know."you didn't touch him at all,”and began stroking the plastic bag. “Why did you come? What do you want to know? " “Nothing special,” I replied, “I wanted to meet you. I am researching the properties of the human brain, and I wanted to talk to you myself. " - “For science, then yes. Do you know Mary? Do you know Jacob? Sergey? " - "No, Aunt Wanga, I don't know."

Wang was silent, leaned back in her chair, muttered something dissatisfied (it seems about science) and suddenly leaned slightly to the left, her face became interested. “Right now your mother has come. She's here. He wants to tell you something. And you can ask her. " Knowing that Vanga often speaks about the dissatisfaction of relatives who have gone to another world, that they are angry because of the children's inattention to their graves, I, expecting the same answer, said to Vanga: “Mom is probably angry with me”. (Mom died in 1975, I was with Vanga in 1989. After the death of my mother, I went to her grave for five years in a row.) Vanga listened, listened and suddenly said: “No. She's not angry with you. It is all a disease; she says: it's all a disease. " (By the way, during her lifetime, my mother often said that.) And then - to me, at the same time showing with her hands: “She had such a paralysis.- Vanga's hands imitate trembling. - Here is one. “Parkinsonism,” I comment. - Yes, yes, that's right, parkinsonism. And so it was, my mother for twelve years suffered from severe parkinsonism …"

“Mother has two requests to you: go to the monks and order to be remembered. To the monks. " - "In Leningrad, - I ask, - in Moscow?" - "No, to the monks." - "Zagorsk?" - “Yes, yes, Zagorsk. And the second request - go to Siberia. " - "Forever and ever? When? Where?" - “Where told you, to Siberia. Not forever. When? You yourself will understand, soon … And what is this - Siberia? - Wang laughs. - Town? A place?" - “Yes, I have no one in Siberia. And why am I going there? " I say. Wanga: “I don’t know. Mother asks. " By the way, quite unexpectedly, upon arrival in Leningrad, I received an invitation to Siberia to read about my grandfather, academician V. M. Bekhterev. And she didn't go. And I still regret it. A much later trip turned out to be just pleasant: Baikal is beautiful both from a gentle and from a rocky side. Maybe if only … But who can answer this question now ?!

And then Wanga began to ask me: "Where is your father?" “I don’t know,” I answered not quite the truth. “How can you not know, it was murder, murder! Where is the coffin? (The coffin is the grave.) Where is his coffin? " - "I do not know". - It's already true here. - "How can you not know, you must know, you try and you will know." Ah, Vanga, Vanga, I thought, well, who will tell me where the bones of my shot father lie! They said. I asked again through other channels. Confirmed. It is very likely that, together with the same unfortunate people, my father was buried near Leningrad, in Levashovo … “Why do you go to the deputy minister? This is not your man, he will promise - and will not do anything to you, go to the minister. This is your person”(Vanga). Indeed, lately I have tried to solve organizational, construction and financial issues with the Deputy Minister of Health of the USSR. None of this came of it. Later, I did not contact him, at least systematically. A director's position is difficult, especially a director outside Moscow. I got tired of this impassable bureaucracy more than anything else. Therefore, I decided to get rid of the directorship by the age of 65. What she announced at the age of 64 quite officially. This unleashed a fierce struggle for power at the institute. But about this - elsewhere.

It seemed to me that Aunt Vanga shouldn't have known about my visits to the Deputy Minister. Did you guess it by chance? Now I think it's impossible to guess about this: my visits to Moscow were at different times. Further: “Something I very badly see your husband, as if in a fog. Where is he?" - "In Leningrad". - "In Leningrad … yes … it's bad, I don't see him well." A few months later, my husband died in a very tragic situation. Did Vanga's words have anything to do with my terrible personal events? I do not know. I don’t think so. "And a few years ago there were three deaths next to you." Somehow I didn't realize it and said: "Yes, grandfather, father, mother." - “Well, what about your father and grandfather, they died much earlier. Three are almost there. " True, on reflection, I silently agreed, it was so. My mother, who lived with us, the mother of my husband's first wife and my only friend, very beloved by me. With a distance between deaths of about two years. But why suddenly about this ?! Although now I would answer myself: why not? After all, I did not ask Vanga a specific question, I just wanted to listen to her. Yes, there were three deaths. And suddenly: “Perhaps you are worried about yourself? So your health is all right. Your sister will not get well, she will be ill, she will never recover. " Yes, I was unwell, but my sister was lying, I don’t know how many times, in the hospital. And now she is ill, and everything is the same, the same as it was. She is nine years younger than me, at 55 she retired, now she is a disabled person of the first group.worried about yourself? So your health is all right. Your sister will not get well, she will be ill, she will never recover. " Yes, I was unwell, but my sister was lying, I don’t know how many times, in the hospital. And now she is ill, and everything is the same, the same as it was. She is nine years younger than me, at 55 she retired, now she is a disabled person of the first group.worried about yourself? So your health is all right. Your sister will not get well, she will be ill, she will never recover. " Yes, I was unwell, but my sister was lying, I don’t know how many times, in the hospital. And now she is ill, and everything is the same, the same as it was. She is nine years younger than me, at 55 she retired, now she is a disabled person of the first group.

What's with her? Hard to say. Leg ulcer - that is, it is not. Chronic leg ulcer. No forces. Slowness of movements. Can't always get up. In ancient times they talked about such people - they jinxed them. They jinxed her - and what is there to guess at doctors, especially since neither the best nor just good doctors can help her. And in her youth she was a rare beauty: tall, slender, blond, green-eyed. Yes, it was not long. By the time she was thirty or thirty-five, she became just a pretty woman, and by fifty it was already impossible to believe in the past beauty. Her mother loved her very much, and she was a daughter, spiritually close to her mother. And now ten years have passed since my conversation with Vanga. My sister, thank God, is alive. But she really wasn't cured. She's - let's just say - no better. All the same. But how could Vanga know about this, "Aunt Vanga"? After all, what I told her about my sister's illness,it was very innocent: "I am a little sick, will recover soon." “Your sister won't get well.” How did she know that? I do not know. Both my husband and sister were at the same distance from Vanga. Where does a clear vision of the events associated with my sister come from, and - "I don't see your husband clearly, like in a fog"? I do not know.

There was also something else. I will remember - I will finish. Then, when such meetings take place, it seems that you will remember every word all your life. And then this, as, fortunately, both, gradually fades, as if an ever less transparent veil falls on the past, through which facts still shine through and slowly fade, colors fade, emotions fade. How wonderful that emotions can fade! How wonderful that great and small tragedies are hiding in the chests of history! And let the past joys even go away with them. This is the price! I am ready to pay it, although most people have some kind of protection - they cherish the memory of joys. And therefore - "what is past, it will be nice."

There are a lot of people who claim to be able to see the past, present and future. It is not my task to evaluate them, to compare them, or to separate the “clean” from the “unclean,” true prophets from charlatans. It was important for me to see a person whose special properties have really passed the test both by number and time - it does not matter to me how many of them, similar or even the same. Let it be one, let it be a thousand. It was important for me to make sure myself: yes, it happens. And far from everything can be rejected as obtained by the "staff of informants". By the way, with a staff of informants, which is hardly available, what to do with the cows and calves found in the swamps, in the thickets of forests - at the exact instructions of Vanga: "How strange - a cow, but says where she is!"

Vanga at the end of the conversation very much called to come again. Yes, I would have gone, but the goal has already been achieved. A person with special vision, clairvoyance - by the way, with physical blindness - exists, he has a name, an address, he can be described, touched, he lives among us - Vanga. It was important for me to personally make sure that this kind of phenomenon - seeing events of the past, present, geographically distant beyond the capabilities of the sensory sphere, and even more so of future events - can exist. I cannot help but believe what I have heard and seen myself. A scientist has no right to reject facts (if he is a scientist!) Just because they do not fit into a dogma, a worldview.

Later, when I became closer to the Church, I was already fully prepared to easily believe in the existence of prophets by God's grace. Was Wanga a prophet of God's grace? This is not given to me to know. She was religious, at least outwardly, she suffered a lot physically - I don't know if she had mental suffering with the recognition of God's will and patience - in short, I don't know very much. But what I know is that Vanga cannot be attributed to charlatans. According to the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, the number of now come true clairvoyances about the present and prophecies about the future reaches 80% in Vanga! As for the remaining 20%, there may be those cases that I initially attributed to possible knowledge about me and did not assess as clairvoyance. And of course, the freedom of will we have at our disposal - indeed, in many little things we are free.

What else would I like to say about Vanga here? Interest in her has always been very great, and, probably, if the contact with her was followed by evil, not accidental, but among many people, this would be known. She had many supporters, but she had enough opponents, they would not have missed such a tidbit! My desire to be convinced of the "strange" phenomena myself and to give them as objective an assessment as possible played a cruel joke on me (and far from being a joke!) When I was interested in Kashpirovsky's influence on individuals and the audience. I will say right away: my words, which became the title of the second interview in the Rush Hour newspaper - “It would be better if he was a charlatan” - it was just a cry from my heart, my soul.

The first acquaintance with Anatoly Mikhailovich Kashpirovsky took place in Moscow, in an academic hotel, where he came to me either for advice or for help. Then I saw him many times and saw how he created his own image (“image” - we now love everything foreign). And in the beginning I talked with a doctor from the provinces, who, as he said, was able to help children with bedwetting - bedwetting. But only. For this, television was needed, since there are many such children and television contact will provide treatment for a very large number of patients. I did not foresee any difficulties in this first case during the conversation. It is not only the right, but also the duty of the doctor to help. This case was very suitable precisely for psychotherapeutic influence. So why bans? I could not imagine the features of the influence of Anatoly Mikhailovich,his claims and aspirations.

Probably, my degree of suggestibility is close to average - I can both agree with someone else's opinion, and resist it in words and deeds. In any case, the excess of suggestibility never pursued me. And, despite this, an hour after the conversation with Kashpirovsky, where he completely casually walked through my possible diet (exclude bread, potatoes, etc.), we went with my friend to dinner at our usual hotel restaurant. We talked, and I noticed that my counterpart somehow eats wrong. When I looked at my plate, I saw that it was me who ate “wrong”, not she. The fries I love were on my plate gently pushed to the side (!). “Wow influence,” I thought, and immediately, as it were, “closed off” from Anatoly Mikhailovich. Whether I succeeded completely - it's hard for me to judge,however, in no subsequent contacts between me and Anatoly Mikhailovich, nothing similar happened to me. I wanted and want to lose weight, but I didn't think that A. M. should have anything to do with it.

Nevertheless, I continued to count A. M.'s television sessions. for the treatment of children with enuresis not only possible, but also desirable, and a small episode with my unexpected behavior at food alerted me only to myself - well, of course, there was a conversation about weight, potatoes and bread, and even in a direct dialogue, - Well, it happened, maybe I myself really wanted to lose weight. You have to be careful. And for now - that's it.

I was alerted later. I was shown a video film shot in Kiev during A. M. at the stadium. I saw how easily, with what pleasure, voluptuousness, downright, A. M. makes respectable (at least in age) people funny, making them cry, wring their hands, go out on the stadium lawn. And then - a session of "pain relief". A number of men - and brisk A. M. he tramples their toes with all his might. They are not in pain, although one just falls. Are their legs intact? Nobody checks this. Well, no, this is absolutely unacceptable, this can be done not by a psychotherapist, but simply by a sadist. And no further widescreen broadcasts of A. M. about goodness, peace for people, they could not convince me of his sincerity. This is a convenient form: it should be so. Even before seeing the stadium disgrace, still believing that we are dealing with a doctor, we examined two volunteers.

Indeed, physiological and biochemical parameters of the organism easily "moved" under the influence of A. M.

Considering this to be the beginning of work, we did not organize any control or repetition. Who could have guessed that A. M. these two studies are enough "for the rest of your life." That the non-continuation of work will help to maintain the image of an unrecognized (or not recognized by all) "genius" who does not have the conditions for scientific work, for the desired verification, etc. It is very easy to study this side - “how the vital activity indices of the organism change under the influence of the influence”, and whatever it may be, is very simple in any working laboratory. It is not difficult to look at the second side - and not even the verbal composition of the "impact", but the drawing of AM's voice. Well, if the "influence" can be carried out from the film-plates, moreover, only for a certain time (something about 6 times), and then the "influence" weakens, then it is necessary to analyze the sound,look for unusual components or unusual combinations of the usual. There is no hope that these two types of work will provide a complete answer explaining the intensity of the impact. (Many have a similar, but weaker effect.) But something will be clearer. In particular, it will be possible to give an answer to the question of whether the idea of how human organisms produce Kashpirovsky's "miracles" is correct. And of course, if the hypothesis turns out to be correct, limit these and similar effects to a minimum.due to what the organisms of people give out the "miracles" of Kashpirovsky. And of course, if the hypothesis turns out to be correct, limit these and similar effects to a minimum.due to what the organisms of people give out the "miracles" of Kashpirovsky. And of course, if the hypothesis turns out to be correct, limit these and similar effects to a minimum.

What is the essence of the hypothesis? It is assumed that the effects such as the loss of warts, papillomas, etc., and others, are caused by the urgent one-time mobilization of all reserves of the body. If the goal deserves it, well … But from the main possible goal of A. M. refused: from oncology. And if the goal is papilloma, and after a short time a person is faced with something that requires the maximum of his physical and mental reserves, then what? Sometimes it is bad, very bad, if the reserves are spent on the fight against papilloma.

It can also be bad when, in the course of exposure to A. M. the organism requires already spent reserves. It is then that “deep” (protective) sleep, epileptic seizures, mental disorders appear …

No, Kashpirovsky does not need to study his influence. He knows more about himself than he speaks, and sometimes at will (his) purposefully causes evil. A call to life of hyperreserves? Deliberately depleting them? It is a pity that scientific cooperation with Kashpirovsky is impossible. But I myself would no longer play with this evil fire.

There will be enough people who want a miracle for his lifetime. And the "strange" phenomena associated with it, not yet fully understood, are asking for the role of miracles. But here, unlike Vanga, I won't say: I don't know. I don't know to the end, but I suppose the mechanisms of action. Changes in the human body can be studied. A voice - if it is a voice - can be analyzed, calculated, reproduced. Of course, the whole television show with the reading of letters about miraculous cures also matters, setting up, exalting the audience - and that's it …

Summary: there are no miracles here. There are opportunities developed, guided by a strong, not always good will of a person who does not spend himself on others, not from God (or not always from God) who asks for help to the sick.

So: this is only formally "Through the Looking Glass", but in essence, although not completely, it is already a phenomenon under study now. But there is a phenomenon.

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