The famous surgeon Xi Yun Kim, the first to transplant an animal's head onto a new body, told Valery Spiridonov why the development of body transplantation methods is going so slowly, whether a young body will rejuvenate an old brain, and revealed the secret of why little South Korea is ahead of Russia in science.
Professor Kim is one of the most famous and controversial surgeons in South Korea and around the world in general. In his laboratory at Konkuka University, all experiments on body transplantation and spine healing in rats were carried out according to the methods developed by the Italian surgeon Sergio Canavero.
What project are you mainly involved in today?
- Recently, I have been focusing on connecting the nerves of the spinal cord so that a whole body transplant can be performed. But there is a technical problem here, because it is not always possible to use small animals such as rats in such cases.
But with earlier research, spinal cord nerves are highly likely to connect, and I am discussing this issue in international collaborative research. In fact, the help of foreign scientists is needed, because the methods of connecting the nerves of the spinal cord can be used not only in whole-body transplants, but also in the treatment of patients with a damaged spinal cord.
But it is very difficult for me to find funds to carry out such research. If these technologies were associated with the development of new materials used for commercial purposes, it would be much easier to find money.
But our research cannot be used commercially, and therefore investors are reluctant to fund this work. I also think that giving money for our experiments to people is hampered by ethical prejudices about head transplants. Later, I will elaborate on the ethical side of research.
What's new in stem cell technology? Are there any major discoveries or achievements that you can highlight?
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- As you know, I specialized in human stem cells. Therefore, I had considerable experience in the field of research into products of cell therapy using stem cells. But due to technological limitations, it remains very difficult to make significant progress in the field of cell therapy, say, in organ replacement.
Therefore, the most practical cell therapy product today is stem cell-based infection containment and the production of immunocytes. If there is progress, then it will be possible to move on to the treatment of the retina of the eye or the pancreas. In other words, focusing on individual human stem cells is now the most practical direction.
The spinal cord is more and more difficult - many of my colleagues are trying to eliminate the consequences of spinal cord injuries using stem cells, but the money for regenerative treatment is getting smaller due to the large number of failures. In my opinion, the introduction of stem cells into a not very good environment, that is, into an already damaged area, may be ineffective.
Research continues in such areas as the removal of damaged areas and treatment using various materials. Our team conducts research using polyethylene glycol. Stem cell research currently cannot provide the basis for the treatment of spinal cord injuries. But in the future, it will be possible to use new materials and treatment using the method of electrical stimulation.
What are the differences between Russian and Korean scientific schools? What do they have in common? Which one is stronger today?
- Unfortunately, I cannot give an exhaustive answer to this question, because I am not familiar with Russian research in the field of biotechnology.
Korea is investing heavily in research and development, but it wants to see tangible results from its investment. Such a desire forces scientists to conduct research where there is a better chance of success. The problem with Korean scientific research, paradoxically, is that scientists are mainly engaged in research that may interest the public.
In other words, in Korea, scientific work is progressing unevenly: something goes faster, but something stands still. In addition, it becomes more and more difficult to train scientific personnel and experts, because there is not enough material base. In other words, in some areas Korea is at the peak of scientific progress, but in other parts of science, we simply do not have people to deal with them. And it seems to me that big countries like Russia suffer less in this respect than Korea.
What areas of science do you consider as priority for a radical increase in human life expectancy?
- The most interesting area is the creation of brain-machine interfaces (BMI). It seems to me that memory preservation and brain imitation are possible. Elon Musk founded a company called Neuralink and began researching BMI. It seems that we will not be able to use this technology in everyday life until 2040, but such technologies in the near future will help to increase life expectancy by transferring a person's personality to a chip.
In addition, for practical reasons, I think that body transplant will be the most successful human life extension project.
Let's assume that you can have surgery to prolong life. How do you know that the operated person will receive additional years of life (provided that the young body and the old brain are connected?)
- In 2015, scientists confirmed that older people get younger with fresh blood. When an old rat received the blood of young rats, it rejuvenated, including rejuvenating its brain. It turned out that growth factors, hormones and healthy immune cells that get to an aging person along with the blood of younger donors make him younger.
The theory of rejuvenation by obtaining fresh blood has long been confirmed in many studies. And the degree of rejuvenation depends on the functioning of the younger body.
Even if the brain is affected by the effect of rejuvenation, doesn't it lose neurons after some time? And does not die?
- There are many stem cells in the adult brain. But their activity decreases, and new neurons do not appear (my specialization is brain stem cells). Today we can already isolate these cells from the brain of an adult mouse, multiply them and manipulate their work, restoring their numbers to their original form.
The same can be done with the human brain. With the right components in young blood, senescent brain stem cells can restore their function.
If a rich person decides to undergo such a procedure, what will happen to his brain in the end? Will he get younger and start thinking like a young brain?
- This is the most important point. Degenerative brain diseases are caused by abnormal aging of immune cells. If their work is restored, then the very cause of the destruction of brain cells disappears. If we talk about Alzheimer's disease, then the brain cells will be cleared of tangles of tau protein and beta-amyloid, and in the presence of Parkinson's disease, alpha-synucleins will be destroyed.
If we receive funds to conduct experiments, then we will try to prove it first.
There is also a personal question about the ethical aspect of body transplant
- The first impression of the words "head transplant" is very negative, and there are certain prejudices about body transplants. But it seems to me that ethical standards are a relative concept, and that people cannot evaluate the transplant itself by objective ethical standards.
For example, since 1999, hands have been transplanted, as well as many organs, and people rate this very highly. If we say that an arm transplant is a normal operation from an ethical point of view, then what can we say about a leg transplant? This is also ok from an ethical point of view. What about a paralyzed lower body transplant in a person? The key point of this question is quite simple: we cannot ethically evaluate body transplants for some people.
In addition, some people believe that organ transplants from one body will save the lives of many people, not just one person as with a head transplant. It seems to me that this is an outdated, utilitarian ethical point of view. You cannot judge the value of one life and compare it with another. Here you have to think easier. There is nothing wrong with my desire for Valery. I just want to help him and I will do my best to help my friend.
Valery Spiridonov
