When they write to me in the comments to any post “This is all nonsense!”, “It was all different,” “Nonsense,” and so on, I always calmly answer: “Write what you think is correct, I will definitely publish your version” … Do you know how many people come back with their version? Nobody. Except for a couple of people, one of whom is the blogger levhudoi
Whether I like his version or not, what I think of it is not important. A person has an opinion and we have the right to listen to and discuss it. And the opinion concerns again the same article in my blog about which we have already spoken about more than once - The raising of the Alexander Column in 1832. So, I hand over the floor to levhudoi, and in the comments I am waiting for your opinion about this information.
Recently, one of the most popular LJ bloggers Trowel shared an old publication of Ikuwa https://salik.biz/articles/18840-a-kak-na-samom-de..based on an even older article from the old Soviet magazine "Construction Industry" No. 4 1935.
And here is what an enthusiastic review Trowel wrote in the introduction: Cool post, read it with great interest and I advise you …
It's strange. If a person read the post with great interest, then why did he not notice the many absurdities and contradictions in it? Judging by the comments, supporters of the official version believe that since there are drawings and texts about the manual construction of a giant megalith, they confirm the official version by 100%. But, how can pictures and words confirm anything?
These are not photographs! In order to at least somehow believe the drawings, it is necessary that they do not contradict each other and are not absurd in content. And this is what happens …
And so, the quote:
Leafing through an old magazine, I found an article about how our ancestors, who lived 200 years ago, without any Komatsu, Hitachi, Ivanovtsev and other cutters, successfully solved a difficult and today engineering problem - they delivered the blank of the Alexander column to St. Petersburg, processed it, raised and set up vertically. And it still stands. Vertically.
Promotional video:
Prof. N. N. Luknatsky (Leningrad), magazine "Construction Industry" No. 13 (September) 1936, pp. 31-34
First minor remark. "For the seed." Why is there a completely different statue on the column? At the real monument, an angel with a cross is standing with a raised hand. And he looks the other way. Google the photos if you don't know or look here:
And in the corners of the steps there should be square pedestals, but this is not in the picture.
Let's go further:
The stone was finally separated and overturned with levers and capstans on a prepared bed of 3.6 m thick branches thrown onto an inclined log grillage.
So, the author of the text claims that the layer of branches for a stone blank is 3.6 meters. Take a look at the picture. The separated monolith is 7 meters thick. The branch layer is 3.6, that is, the branch layer must reach the middle of the monolith. And in the figure, the branches only slightly protrude above the lower line of the monolith.
First, a stone was delivered for a pedestal weighing about 400 tons (24,960 poods); besides him, several more stones were loaded on the ship, and the total weight of the entire loading was about 670 tons (40 181 poods); Under this weight, the ship bent somewhat, but it was decided to install it between two steamers and tow it to its destination: despite the stormy autumn weather, it arrived safely on November 3, 1831.
Delivery of blocks for the pedestal of the Alexander Column
I liked that the SHIP BENDED! under such weight. Here the question arises:
Why put extra weight on a unique vessel? Why bend the ship?
The extraction of a giant monolith at that time was very expensive and took a lot of time. And sail for about a day. By steamers then. The distance is about 200 km. Why not do 2 walks? Why risk a ship, a monolith and people?
In the picture, we see that 5 people are riding on the megalith. Without any handrails. There is nothing to hold on to, and the excitement is strong. Why risk their lives?
If a bent ship cracks, will these people glue it together on the go? Or will they hold 670 tons in the air while they bring up another ship?
Two hours later, the stone was already unloaded to the shore with the help of 10 capstans, of which 9 were installed on the embankment, and the tenth was fixed on the stone itself and worked through the return block, fixed on the embankment.
Moving the block for the pedestal of the Alexander Column from the embankment
Explain why one winch should also be installed on the megalith? That on the whole Earth there was enough room for only 9 capstans, but there was no 10th place?
To fix the capstan, you need to drill several deep and wide holes in the granite monolith so that the winch does not rip out later. After all, there is a huge effort. Why spoil the future pedestal? What if it cracks from the stress?
Look also at the rope hanging from the top of the monolith, and which is drawn from the capstan set on the stone. This rope ends at the anchorage of the block that pulls this 400 ton colossus. Further, this rope does not stretch anywhere.
Why is the rope pulled by the capstan ?:
Moreover, this rope simply rubs along the edge of the granite block without any rotating block. Who does that? And pulling is an order of magnitude harder and the rope can burst from friction, and the granite in this place will deeply fray.
I quote further:
the column was moved by eight capstans, of which 6 dragged the stone forward, and 2 located behind, held the column during its oblique movement due to the difference in the diameters of its extremities
Oh I can't, hold me tight. A mega mass of almost a thousand tons is pulled, and immediately braked by the tail.
This is the school of Solomon Plyar, Ballroom dance school, you are told.
Two steps to the left, two steps to the right
One step forward and two steps back.
What prevented the narrower edge of the column from being pulled forward instead of holding the wider one? This is nonsense!
We quote further:
28 logs, 10.5 m long and 60 cm thick, were laid on the pier and the ship; along them it was necessary to drag the column onto the ship with ten capstans located on the avanmole; in addition to the workers on the capstans, 60 people were also placed in front and behind the column. to observe the ropes going to the capstans, and those with which the ship was secured to the pier. At 4 o'clock in the morning on June 19, Montferand gave the signal for loading: the convoy was moving easily along the beds and was almost already loaded, when an incident occurred that almost caused a catastrophe; due to the slight inclination of the side closest to the pier, all 28 logs were lifted and immediately broke under the weight of the stone; the ship heeled, but did not capsize, as it rested against the bottom of the port and the wall of the pier; the stone slid to the sagging side, but lingered at the side of the dock.
Loading a column bar onto a barge
A military team of 600 people was called to help the workers; having passed a forced march of 38 km, the soldiers arrived at the quarry in 4 hours; after 48 hours continuous work without rest and sleep, the ship was straightened, the monolith was firmly strengthened and by July 1, 2 steamers delivered it to b. Palace Embankment.
Why did the organizers of the loading not insure themselves in advance by these 600 not sleeping and not resting heroes?
Still, for the first time in the documented history of mankind, 700 tonnes of stone were loaded onto a ship on boards. Not a joke. What if 28 boards crack? 2 years of work of hundreds of people - down the drain. Better to be safe.
You will laugh, but in a similar situation 8 years earlier, exactly 600 soldiers also participated with columns for St. Isaac's Cathedral:
On July 29, 1824, one ship with two columns sank between St. Isaac's Bridge and the Admiralty. The contractor Zherbin who delivered the convoy himself wished to unload the sunken ship. To do this, he attracted 40 of his own workers and hired 600 more soldiers, refusing the services of Samson Sukhanov offered to him by Montferrand.
RGIA, f. 1311, op. 1, d.237, l. 18, 38 vol. - 40 vol. Excerpts and references are taken from: V. K. Shuisky. Auguste Moferrand. History of life and work. - SPb.: OOO MiM-Delta; M.: ZAO Tsentrpoligraf, 2005. Pp. 98 - 101.
realhistory.borda.ru/?1-2-0-00000001-000-10…
But, this is not all. The same 600 people mined this column:
In the Puterlax career, six hundred (600) people were simultaneously employed, working under the guidance of a self-taught technician Vasily Yakovlev, a 20-year-old youth gifted with remarkable intelligence and organizational skills.
photo.sbor.ru/Piter/Ae_oe_ …
Is there too much overlap with this 600 number?
I quote further:
The bottom of the river was cleared of the piles left over from the lintel after the embankment wall was built; the inclined granite wall was leveled to a vertical plane with the help of a very strong wooden structure so that the vessel with the column could come very close to the embankment, without any gap; the connection of the cargo barge with the embankment was made of 35 thick logs stacked close to each other; 11 of them passed under the column and rested on the deck of another heavily loaded vessel, located on the river side of the barge and serving as a counterweight;
Not understood. Why would the second ship be heavily loaded? To sink faster when the weight of the column also falls on him? Or how?
in addition, at the ends of the barge, 6 more thick logs were laid and reinforced, the ends of which were firmly tied to the auxiliary ship on one side, and the opposite ones were extended 2 m to the embankment; the barge was firmly pulled to the embankment by means of 12 ropes covering it. To launch the monolith ashore, 20 capstans worked, 14 of them pulled the stone, and 6 held the barge; the descent went very well within 10 minutes.
Again the same absurd logic. 14 capstans are pulling the column, and almost half of this number are holding the barge.
What to keep her from? The barge is simply tied up. What other capstans? Why fence a garden?
This could only be written by someone who was not at the scene of events, but fantasized, lying on the couch.
Further in the article by Ikuva-Masterk, whom they admire so much, more "proofs" are attached in the form of illustrations:
Moving the finished column: from the embankment to the overpass
At the beginning of the overpass
At the beginning of the overpass
On the overpass
At the end of the overpass
The beginning of the rise of the column
Denisov Alexander Gavrilovich. The rise of the Alexander Column. 1832
The fact is that in these illustrations, the biggest and most noticeable nonsense of Montferrand, which I described in detail in my old article
I will now repeat a small fragment from it.
First, let's pay attention to three little things, in which the devil is hiding again.
1. The column did not have a smooth barrel, but with a special annular protrusion at the far end (indicated by a red arrow).
2. There are no holes on the future top surface of the column.
3. On the circumference of the top surface there are no 4 notches along the edges.
4. The bow of the barge is dull like a bulldog's.
This is the first Montferrand.
Let's also see what the barge looked like on page 59 of the album:
The barge's profile is symmetrical and "blunt" - vertical bow and tail
Official chronology:
July 1 - a ship with a column arrived in St. Petersburg and stopped at a wooden pier, specially built for this at the Palace Embankment.
July 12 - a column of 35 beams was rolled out onto the embankment. 768 people took part in the works.
August 28 - rehearsal for lifting the column trunk raised by the collars 20 feet
(Another source added that they managed to polish it in St. Petersburg before lifting).
Here is a fragment of Montferrand's drawing of the first stage of transportation of the column along Palace Square (61 pages album):
On July 12, the convoy was rolled off the barge onto the shore. The marked annular ledge is visible, which was still during loading on the barge.
But, the bow of the ship is already completely different - of a modern type, sharp with a large angle of inclination, which makes sense for high speeds of modern boats.
On the right and left we see a fence on an inclined plane.
This is the second Montferrand. Him:
1. Column with a collar in the middle.
2. All collars have at least 1 noticeable cut along the edges of these rings.
3. The bow of the barge is already inclined
4. There is a fence near the inclined surface.
On the next "frame" (page 63 of the album), the column was rolled up to an inclined surface:
Along the inclined plane, there are 8 wooden rails for the columns to roll over them. It is not possible to find out the presence of a ring on the column - the column is too far away. But the fence disappeared. But, a hole appeared at the top of the column in the center of the circle:
This is the third Montferrand. He has this version:
1. Column with a hole in the top end. (Perhaps this is the lower end of the column, if it was turned for some reason after being unloaded from the barge by 180 degrees, which is unlikely + such an arrangement will be seen in the following figures. Also, in all other figures in this study, the hole in the lower end will not be visible) …
2. There is no cut in the circles.
3. There is no fence.
On the next "shot" (page 64 of the album) the column was already rolled up. And lo and behold! The ring is gone! The column is now smooth. But the fence again appeared on both sides of the inclined plane, on the mountain to the bugbears! And there were 9 rails instead of 8. It is a pity, it is not possible to check for a hole in the upper plane of the column. Maybe skeptics will be lucky with this element? Well, at least something should be true in the official version, except that the white bear is afraid of stuck skis.
Note the carriage that drives out from under the inclined bridge.
This is the fourth Montferrand! He has this version:
1. The column is smooth.
2. There is a fence.
3. Carriages are passing under the inclined surface.
The fourth frame from the 72nd page of the album:
The annular protrusion on the column shaft reappeared in all its glory, and the hole in the center of the upper surface of the column disappeared. Not a word of truth.
The fence and 2 rails (there are now 7 of them) on the incline disappear again. It also shows that there are no horse passages under the bridge.
This is the fifth Montferrand with this version:
1. There is no fence (like the third Montferrand).
2. There is no hole in the center of the end of the column (the third had one).
3. On all three annular protrusions there are 1 or 2 slots (the second one is not visible from the bottom, it is closed by a column, and on the upper one there are already 4 slots visible.
4. There are no carriage passages under the ramp.
In another painting by Montferrand (p. 68), the capstans are on the same level as the column, there is no second level at all. (The same will be in Denisov's painting):
And the sixth Montferrand drew a column with 30 square protrusions:
In general, Montferrand could already be 6.
What does it mean? The drawings are not about the landscape, but about the column. She is the center of attention. And it is impossible not to draw a large detail for the entire circumference of the column in the middle of its trunk. How could Montferrand have forgotten about this ring in the intermediate drawing? On the previous and next drawings I remembered my own production, but on the intermediate one I forgot? Why couldn't he look at the first drawing when he was drawing the second? And when he was drawing the third, he did not look at the second?
And how did no one tell him about an error during the drawing process or after? Did he paint all this as a hermit in the desert? Was there no one around?
I'm not even talking about the fence that disappears and appears four times. Like fortune telling on a chamomile-appeared-disappeared-appeared-disappeared-loves-dislikes.
It's like an aircraft designer draws the largest plane, created personally by him and forgets how many wings he has - maybe 2 or 3.
But if we assume that all this was drawn not from nature, but according to fantasy, if they were given the task to draw the process of installing a column of which no one had seen, then such errors can be imagined.
In addition to Montferrand, I found another artist who depicted an inclined plane. Surname Denisov. Here is a snippet of the picture:
But, the fence on it - "neither ours nor yours" - only reaches the middle. Friendship won. 1: 1. Hooray! Denisov chose the golden mean. A master of compromise. And the wolves are fed and the sheep are safe. He was able to please both Montferrand (or three or four).
Since, in the end, the column stands without a ring, the myth-maker who depicted the rise of the column might not know anything about the work of other myth-makers.
Most likely, other myth-makers think that the lower part of the column, below the “magic” ring, is recessed into the hole in the pedestal and therefore this part is not visible on the finished column.
In fact, according to the official version, the column stands on a smooth pedestal without any fasteners, which is also doubtful. Place the pencil upright on the table, how long will it resist in the event of minimal earthquakes or gusts of wind? Relying on accurate calculations is dangerous. So that it would not be like in the "exact calculation" in Puterlax when 28 boards cracked and the column fell into the water, but did not drown. There was a sad experience.
If Montferrand (or the one who was named after Montferrand, which, perhaps, did not exist in nature) had drawn in the second picture a column not straight, but curved or tied with a knot, would official scholarly historians not have noticed either? Even if on the column he wrote “Glory to the KPSS! Long live atheism and healthy skepticism! Lenin is with us! would it still work?
After installing the columns, they could cut off the excess part needed only for lifting. But how could this detail disappear at an intermediate stage, and then reappear? How can all this be combined? As they like to express in our Sirius "How to cross a snake and a hedgehog?"
***
Returning to the article by Ikuva-Masterka, which they admire so much:
The lifting of the column lasted 40 minutes;
Hello, arrived. Here are the ones!
All other sources have 105 minutes, but here it is 2.5 times less!
I thought, maybe the original article in the magazine on paper is 100 minutes, but the one who copied on the Internet was mistaken. But, nothing like that. The original also contains 40 minutes. The scan is attached:
Finally, it should be added that over a year ago I already tried to get the author of the original publication, Ikuva (ig-kuv), into a public discussion. He proudly and boldly refused to answer my questions.
Ig-kuv explained the contradictions and absurdities in Montferrand's albums by the fact that Montferrand painted it all, allegedly, 30 years after the column was installed. Therefore, I forgot and confused a lot. But, after all, Montferrand died after 24 years. Did he draw from memory in paradise? Or was he resurrected temporarily as Sukhanov?
I asked this freak-hater for a link and a quote where he found these 30 years. He said the links are at the end of his article. There are only 2 references and none of them mentions these 30 years.
He began to twist, twist, laugh it off, be clever, but never gave a link and a quote.
I am quoting our dialogue https://ig-kuv.livejournal.com/49495.html?thread=54…:
Lev Khudoy Feb 15, 2015 18:17 (UTC)
- I didn't find anything like that in those links. Please provide an exact link and a quote with the date of painting or engravings in 30 years.
ig_kuv Feb 15, 2015 18:21 (UTC)
- If you haven't found it and you don't believe me, I don't insist.
Lev Khudoy Feb 16, 2015 18:48 (UTC)
- Here are 2 links at the end of your article:
vk.com/album-9313481_182655468
www.hellopiter.ru/Alexandria_pillar_pic.htm …
Which of them says that the writing of paintings or engravings was in 30 years?
Please provide an exact quote or admit that you were mistaken.
In this case, a fundamental question remains. How could the author and participant in the construction of the column draw the complete nonsense of a gray mare if he himself was in charge of the project?
Here https://ig-kuv.livejournal.com/49495.html?thread=54 … you wrote:
"Montferrand's engravings were drawn 30 years after their construction."
And I say that they were drawn at the time of the alleged construction (of course, according to the official false version of history). And you invented a 30-year break to justify the millions of contradictions and stupidity in the drawings of the author of the project himself.
Unlike my other opponents, at least he did not ban me, but only said that he refused to answer my questions.
What do you think about all this?